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    #31
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    here's a link to crossfire challenge 2018 05G results. Crossfire A team (not GDA) played in the Super group and had two ties with PSPL teams. PacNW A (Maroon) and Seattle United Copa played in the Gold group and had several losses to PSPL teams.

    I think the data shows that the top PSPL teams can and do compete at the same level of RCL A teams in the new pan-ECNL youth soccer era

    http://events.gotsport.com/events/re...r=Girls&Age=14
    G05 could have been an unusual division. You should post boys results and different age groups. Not doubting you, but the scores you posted are not enough to make your point.

    Comment


      #32
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      G05 could have been an unusual division. You should post boys results and different age groups. Not doubting you, but the scores you posted are not enough to make your point.
      The idea that the PSPL is anywhere near competitive to RCL Div 1 is a joke. You have to look at all teams within each league and division. Could a Gunners or Celtic team compete once and awhile with an RCL team? Of course. Are the leagues anywhere near competitive or are the league standards anywhere near the same, no way.

      As a parent who has had two children play in both leagues I can tell you hands down the RCL is a much better product and experience.

      And oh by the way, the most competitive teams in PSPL cost just as much as RCL.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        The idea that the PSPL is anywhere near competitive to RCL Div 1 is a joke. You have to look at all teams within each league and division. Could a Gunners or Celtic team compete once and awhile with an RCL team? Of course. Are the leagues anywhere near competitive or are the league standards anywhere near the same, no way.

        As a parent who has had two children play in both leagues I can tell you hands down the RCL is a much better product and experience.

        And oh by the way, the most competitive teams in PSPL cost just as much as RCL.
        😂 stop defending rcl . Once the DA and ECNL took the the better kids the leagues were evened out . As I said in an earlier post I watched a pspl team crush pac nw maroon, as a team the pspl side was not that great but they had 5-6 kids that were way more talented individuals then pac had . My daughter plays rcl, I can assure you it’s not any better than pspl and next season will be her last .

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          here's a link to crossfire challenge 2018 05G results. Crossfire A team (not GDA) played in the Super group and had two ties with PSPL teams. PacNW A (Maroon) and Seattle United Copa played in the Gold group and had several losses to PSPL teams.

          I think the data shows that the top PSPL teams can and do compete at the same level of RCL A teams in the new pan-ECNL youth soccer era

          http://events.gotsport.com/events/re...r=Girls&Age=14
          Thanks for posting evidence instead of mere opinion.

          Aren’t the two ties by Crossfire against Oregon teams, not PSPL?

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            😂 stop defending rcl . Once the DA and ECNL took the the better kids the leagues were evened out . As I said in an earlier post I watched a pspl team crush pac nw maroon, as a team the pspl side was not that great but they had 5-6 kids that were way more talented individuals then pac had . My daughter plays rcl, I can assure you it’s not any better than pspl and next season will be her last .
            Trying to prove some unprovable generality that PSPL and RCL Div 1 are even Stephen is a fool's errand but here is my take. I am also a parent that has kids in both leagues and have played many years of PSPL and RCL and DA and ECNL across both genders. PSPL is still a notch below RCL and definitely a couple notches below ECNL for girls and DA for boys in my view. DA for girls is new and XF dropped DA so the history of the Crossfire DA I would group in with ECNL now. Through my years of watching all those teams and leagues I would say very few if any PSPL clubs compete consistently with ECNL and DA. There may be a few anomalies that might popup over the age years in PSPL but in general I have seen that to be true. Then you have to clarify your RCL is weak statements. At what age? At what Gender? At what season? There is no ECNL or DA at the younger years. In my view at the younger years RCL Div 1 is definitely more competitive than PSPL div 1. Then at the older years where girls ECNL still play half the year in RCL Div 1 I would still say PSPL Div 1 is a less competitive except for a couple teams across age groups. On the boys side DA takes alot of the kids starting at U12. List of Washington Clubs in DA:

            Crossfire Premier I
            Crossfire Premier II
            Eastside FC
            Pacific Northwest Soccer Club
            Seattle United I
            Snohomish United
            Washington Premier FC
            Washington Rush


            However there are quite of few clubs that do not have DA still playing in RCL. Surf (Now Sound) is not there, NW United, Kitsap, FW etc. Typically outside of the top 5 WYS premier clubs the other WYS clubs compete at the bottom of RCL Div 1 and top of RCL Div 2 with some anomaly years that rise to the top of RCL Div 1. So at the older ages these teams might be your new top RCL Div 1 clubs combined with the second teams of the above listed clubs. If I were to compare their A teams to PSPL Div 1 teams. I would say there are once again 1 or 2 PSPL clubs (maybe 3 or 4 now) that compete with them but in general across the board the PSPL clubs are less competitive.

            Really I think we need to stop trying to compare leagues at all and just say WYS soccer clubs vs US Club Soccer. When we take our kids to a club we try to get the best total experience for our kids. If one year they are on an A or B team and then have the chance to move up to ECNL or DA then that is why you may join a WYS club over a US Club Soccer club that only plays in PSPL. Having an ECNL and/or DA team at your club will be a driver of kids and parents seeking a path to better competition and will make the second teams still stronger or as strong as the PSPL First teams. Of course some parents have to say they are on an A team and go to any club that puts their kid on an A team so that is a driver of kids not being on B teams in WYS.

            Tournaments are also a terrible determination of who is better or worse. We all know that summer has new team dynamics, guest players, win at all cost play, format problems etc. Until the PSPL and RCL are one league, which is probably never, we won't consistently be able to determine which Div 1 is better and it will be up to parent conjecture like mine and yours.

            I think a better way to describe the landscape would be by clubs vs leagues. My new comparison would be WYS clubs are more competitive than US Club Soccer clubs in Washington State. Of course this also discounts the who has better training regardless of strength argument. That is a debate for another day.

            Comment


              #36
              This thread is bringing up really important questions:

              1. Do leagues develop players? (WYS says RCL "provides the highest-level league play and player development."

              2. If leagues develop players, what specific abilities/skills is the league developing that the club does not?

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                This thread is bringing up really important questions:

                1. Do leagues develop players? (WYS says RCL "provides the highest-level league play and player development."

                2. If leagues develop players, what specific abilities/skills is the league developing that the club does not?
                Good point. I am sure the amount of D1 players RCL produces is very low, especially considering the cost.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  This thread is bringing up really important questions:

                  1. Do leagues develop players? (WYS says RCL "provides the highest-level league play and player development."

                  2. If leagues develop players, what specific abilities/skills is the league developing that the club does not?
                  In my opinion a league is supposed to provide a competitively similar set of teams to play against which is a portion of what kids need for development. This competitive similarity is a necessity to develop individuals on a team as well as a team as a whole. However this is just one part of the development process and the league doesn't educate the kids on how to play or give them coerver type foot skills. It just provides an environment in the form of games where what clubs teach can be implemented. We could contrast that to a hypothetical anti development league extreme situation where if a league did no placement of teams and grouped national team bound kids playing against teams of recreational kids. There would be no development at all for the national type of team. I would guess over years of playing in my hypothetical extreme league you would see a large group of kids that did not develop any game intelligence or speed of play.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    I agree that the development provided by leagues (to the extent you can call it development as opposed to a better phrasing - challenge management) is just about grouping teams based on competitive similarity.

                    Too many players/parents do not understand the limited function of a league and choose their kid's club based on the league the club plays in rather than the quality of the soccer education they will receive at the club. Doesn't this entire thread prove the point? "RCL is dead?" Why? Is the point that RCL is a weaker league because good players moved to another league, like ECNL? Why did those players leave? For better training or a better coach? Probably not. Its all about the "pathways and showcases" rat race. Gotta be in the right league in order to be seen, right? But if the player's soccer education is low and they are under-developed as a player (especially compared to similar-aged players elsewhere in the world), what does it matter if the player is "seen"? If all the players stayed in RCL, wouldn't the "challenge management" offered by RCL still be working out fine, allowing that league to stay alive rather than be dead? DA, ECNL...they are just leagues, right? Many players left their non-ECNL clubs to join "ECNL clubs", confirming their belief (wrongheaded in my view) that a club is defined by the league it plays in rather than by the quality of its coaches or training. This is upside down. First it was "RCL Clubs", then DA Clubs" and now "ECNL Clubs". In each case, defining a club by the league it plays in.

                    There are too many leagues promising "pathways and showcases" and not enough focus on choosing a quality education at a quality club. Choose a club based on the quality of education, training, environment, culture, etc. Play in whatever league that club plays in. Eventually, this state needs one statewide league with promotion/relegation so that parents/players can focus on clubs rather than leagues. Who is brave enough to make it happen? Peace. Out.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      I agree that the development provided by leagues (to the extent you can call it development as opposed to a better phrasing - challenge management) is just about grouping teams based on competitive similarity.

                      Too many players/parents do not understand the limited function of a league and choose their kid's club based on the league the club plays in rather than the quality of the soccer education they will receive at the club. Doesn't this entire thread prove the point? "RCL is dead?" Why? Is the point that RCL is a weaker league because good players moved to another league, like ECNL? Why did those players leave? For better training or a better coach? Probably not. Its all about the "pathways and showcases" rat race. Gotta be in the right league in order to be seen, right? But if the player's soccer education is low and they are under-developed as a player (especially compared to similar-aged players elsewhere in the world), what does it matter if the player is "seen"? If all the players stayed in RCL, wouldn't the "challenge management" offered by RCL still be working out fine, allowing that league to stay alive rather than be dead? DA, ECNL...they are just leagues, right? Many players left their non-ECNL clubs to join "ECNL clubs", confirming their belief (wrongheaded in my view) that a club is defined by the league it plays in rather than by the quality of its coaches or training. This is upside down. First it was "RCL Clubs", then DA Clubs" and now "ECNL Clubs". In each case, defining a club by the league it plays in.

                      There are too many leagues promising "pathways and showcases" and not enough focus on choosing a quality education at a quality club. Choose a club based on the quality of education, training, environment, culture, etc. Play in whatever league that club plays in. Eventually, this state needs one statewide league with promotion/relegation so that parents/players can focus on clubs rather than leagues. Who is brave enough to make it happen? Peace. Out.
                      Great post . While there is money to be made in kids soccer no turkey will be voting for thanksgiving . I have been in the game 40 years and I can tell you for certainty none of the clubs around here coach for creativity or guile . Every club picks the biggest and fastest kids while the smaller talented kids get run over . The WNT won a World Cup on athleticism , that’s ok for now until the other countries catch up with funding then they will take over as they are far more technical already . The MNT can’t get away with it as it’s a far more equal playing field . Until we teach our boys to be much better on the ball we have absolutely no chance of ever producing a team that can actually compete for the World Cup .

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        I agree that the development provided by leagues (to the extent you can call it development as opposed to a better phrasing - challenge management) is just about grouping teams based on competitive similarity.

                        Too many players/parents do not understand the limited function of a league and choose their kid's club based on the league the club plays in rather than the quality of the soccer education they will receive at the club. Doesn't this entire thread prove the point? "RCL is dead?" Why? Is the point that RCL is a weaker league because good players moved to another league, like ECNL? Why did those players leave? For better training or a better coach? Probably not. Its all about the "pathways and showcases" rat race. Gotta be in the right league in order to be seen, right? But if the player's soccer education is low and they are under-developed as a player (especially compared to similar-aged players elsewhere in the world), what does it matter if the player is "seen"? If all the players stayed in RCL, wouldn't the "challenge management" offered by RCL still be working out fine, allowing that league to stay alive rather than be dead? DA, ECNL...they are just leagues, right? Many players left their non-ECNL clubs to join "ECNL clubs", confirming their belief (wrongheaded in my view) that a club is defined by the league it plays in rather than by the quality of its coaches or training. This is upside down. First it was "RCL Clubs", then DA Clubs" and now "ECNL Clubs". In each case, defining a club by the league it plays in.

                        There are too many leagues promising "pathways and showcases" and not enough focus on choosing a quality education at a quality club. Choose a club based on the quality of education, training, environment, culture, etc. Play in whatever league that club plays in. Eventually, this state needs one statewide league with promotion/relegation so that parents/players can focus on clubs rather than leagues. Who is brave enough to make it happen? Peace. Out.

                        Honestly I think most parents don't expect a league to develop their kid. That is not what my experience has been. Most parents simply pick a club that is in their driving capabilities, then they may have friends at the club, then they think its the strongest club their kid can make and try to get them on the top team at that club regardless of league. Then if their kid is unhappy (for whatever reason) after playing at the club they try to find the next club they can drive to. After that parents converse between each other about what club your kid plays at and not what league. Somewhere in the conversation they say oh you play at club X or Y. What league is that RCL or PSPL etc. Forums like this are really the only place people get hung up on leagues. Club directors and coaches are the only other people who complain about it when trying to fight a perception about a league their club is in. The same set of parents that are here probably force the conversation on the sidelines about leagues as well to make it seem important. But 80% of the parents are not soccer people and don't care. They do care about their kid being seen as a top player and that is about it.

                        I agree with what you say about trying to focus on club education vs a league. Most clubs are also very coach specific. If you get a good coach then your kid will have a great year. If you get a bad coach then the sport can be ruined for your child. Some clubs pitch a club wide education, I take that back, actually almost all clubs pitch an education. If you look at almost every youth club's website they are pitching some partnership with a European club or some style of play or how they will make your kid a champion etc. It is actually quite hard for us parents to decipher what's BS and what is real. The only way to truly tell is to play at each club and experience what education claims are true or false. Of course that is almost impossible given a busy lifestyle and driving distances. So parents rely on word of mouth and opposing games to judge the clubs they haven't played at.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          G05 could have been an unusual division. You should post boys results and different age groups. Not doubting you, but the scores you posted are not enough to make your point.
                          Gunners B02A ENPL
                          2 Games, 2 Wins, 7 Goals For, 0 Goals Against
                          XF Challenge Gold U18 Bracket
                          Game 1 - won 4-0 v Valor B02 Koch RCL
                          Game 2 - won 3-0 v Spokane Shadow B02 RCL
                          Keep up the great work Boys!
                          #ISCGunners
                          #XFChallenge2019
                          🙌🙌🙌⚽⚽⚽

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Gunners B02A ENPL
                            2 Games, 2 Wins, 7 Goals For, 0 Goals Against
                            XF Challenge Gold U18 Bracket
                            Game 1 - won 4-0 v Valor B02 Koch RCL
                            Game 2 - won 3-0 v Spokane Shadow B02 RCL
                            Keep up the great work Boys!
                            #ISCGunners
                            #XFChallenge2019
                            🙌🙌🙌⚽⚽⚽
                            First congrats to the Gunners kids for probably a well played set of games.

                            If this is supposed to prove an RCL vs PSPL point then thank you for proving that RCL is stronger than the PSPL. You compared the largest and strongest PSPL club to the weakest of RCL clubs. Not only that you obviously do not understand nomenclature for first second or third teams because you do not list them next to the RCL teams. If a PSPL team beat an RCL A team, which may really be a B team, or C team in some cases, then point out it is the second team in a club. (Can we all just go back to using A/B/C or 1/2/3, it is too confusing to call an A team a B team because there is an ECNL team at that year. Maybe you are omitting that on purpose because you hope people just have a simple take away and avoid using A/B/C. Wasn't Valor in PSPL last year as Maple Valley? They have zero history in RCL to even be compared against. The Spokane teams across the board are typically Division 2 or bottom of Division 1 in RCL. Obviously I am not comparing ECNL or DA here which would probably beat PSPL teams even worse. The Gunners can field some strong teams because they are a large club, but please take a data point over an entire year of Gunners vs the first/top/whatever you call an A team nowadays. And then use a spattering of non Gunners teams to help your case. Otherwise it seems like you are using a single point of data to prove an entire case. of PSPL being stronger or not.

                            Also who cares about RCL or PSPL anymore. What most people care about is the club and the opportunities the club does or does not have. If you choose a club based on PSPL or RCL alone then you are an uninformed consumer.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              rcl is dead

                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

                              Also who cares about RCL or PSPL anymore. What most people care about is the club and the opportunities the club does or does not have. If you choose a club based on PSPL or RCL alone then you are an uninformed consumer.
                              I completely agree. In my opinion a team should be chosen in this order:

                              Coach - will your kid develop under them? Do they have a track record improving their teams? Do kids enjoy their style of coaching?

                              Team - Will your kid learn from other players, be challenged by them, find their place? Is it a positive environment? Is there a similar level of commitment to training, outside training, seriousness, etc.

                              Club - does the club have a positive culture? Are there pathways to grow? Is there adequate depth that a few players leaving doesn't cause an age band to crumble? Do they offer help if your kid is pursuing college? Have they had other players move on to teams, colleges, etc that your player aspires to?

                              League - does it really matter?

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                I completely agree. In my opinion a team should be chosen in this order:

                                Coach - will your kid develop under them? Do they have a track record improving their teams? Do kids enjoy their style of coaching?

                                Team - Will your kid learn from other players, be challenged by them, find their place? Is it a positive environment? Is there a similar level of commitment to training, outside training, seriousness, etc.

                                Club - does the club have a positive culture? Are there pathways to grow? Is there adequate depth that a few players leaving doesn't cause an age band to crumble? Do they offer help if your kid is pursuing college? Have they had other players move on to teams, colleges, etc that your player aspires to?

                                League - does it really matter?
                                You're talking WAY too much sense for this forum. Well said.

                                Comment

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