Boys 05

[Unregistered]

The local clubs are the entire problem, they don't have a natural organic order of competition, instead they are burdened with incredible overhead for staff to run what should be an after school youth soccer program, that in theory costs very little to operate with community/school fields basically free. Instead every club holds onto players for dear life to pay bills and payroll. Top players don't migrate to top top clubs anymore since there is no such thing as a top club with top staffing to attract the very best.

The (MLS) DA Timbers don't have much to cherry pick from these days from clubs that have become business operations that designed to create paycheck and have little in terms of quality coaching or players.

Yawn.

Timbers run a **** academy, squeeze everything they can out of OYSA, and blame the clubs for the outcome.

Awesome.

[Unregistered]

Yawn.

Timbers run a **** academy, squeeze everything they can out of OYSA, and blame the clubs for the outcome.

Awesome.

It's called reality, as other states have clubs producing top flight players for their prodigious MLS DA's. Houston, Dallas, Seattle, LA, Philadelphia, San Jose.....

Hard to swallow but it's the truth.

[Unregistered]

It's called reality, as other states have clubs producing top flight players for their prodigious MLS DA's. Houston, Dallas, Seattle, LA, Philadelphia, San Jose.....

Hard to swallow but it's the truth.

Timbers literally control the state organization here. They have more control over how things are run locally than any team in the MLS. Would argue they have more control than European academies have over their local soccer environment.

. . . and when the outcome is poor, they blame everyone else.

Classic.

[Unregistered]

Timbers literally control the state organization here. They have more control over how things are run locally than any team in the MLS. Would argue they have more control than European academies have over their local soccer environment.

. . . and when the outcome is poor, they blame everyone else.

Classic.

If they actually controlled it (OSYA) they would be wise to reduce the number of clubs and steer the best players to one or two clubs. But, they take a llaissez faire attitude regarding club formation and actually foster an end product that resembles their daycare camps, make money not players.

They don't control squat when it comes to youth.

[Unregistered]

If they actually controlled it (OSYA) they would be wise to reduce the number of clubs and steer the best players to one or two clubs. But, they take a llaissez faire attitude regarding club formation and actually foster an end product that resembles their daycare camps, make money not players.

They don't control squat when it comes to youth.

LOL, yes they should send everyone to Westside and Eastside; that would solve all of Oregon's problems.

The counter argument is that if they were less focused on pimping their brand and monetizing youth soccer and more focused building their academy, they would have a better academy.

At the end of the day it really doesn't matter for them - they run a pretty good MLS franchise, without the benefit of a good academy. Everyone loves the idea of local talent being the backbone of a pro club, but they have done reasonably well cracking the code of a successful MLS franchise without doing so.

Dallas runs a very good academy by MLS standards, but has never won an MLS championship; in far fewer years, Timbers have.

Not a priority for them and at some level, don't blame them.

[Unregistered]

I think a lot of you are partially right, and partially wrong.

* Timbers have only recently been starting to act like their academy is something of value, rather than something MLS says they have to do. They are starting to take it more seriously. The manner in which the 05 TA was run last year was a bad joke.

* Running an academy is expensive, and TA is not productive enough to pay for itself yet. It is starting to produce first-team talent, with two Academy prospects with first team deals (though both of them spending a lot of time in T2 working on their games).

* Local club scene is fractured, probably more so than e.g. Seattle where the state association tends to enforce a sharper pyramid (only a handful of clubs get to participate in RCL; the rest are effectively feeders for those that do). Some of these clubs resent the Timbers intrusion into youth soccer and prefer the "old way", when a player would go from NEU or FC or PCU or Westside directly into college, rather than being feeders for the Academy.

* Portland has been, for long time, a basketball town--the NBA has historically stayed out of amateur/youth sports; a very different model than world wide soccer. A strong bias against pro teams running youth academies still exists here.

* Timbers Alliance may have had the unintended side effect of furthering this fracture, as those clubs NOT in the alliance seem to think that the Timbers are constantly conspiring against them. Some greater transparency in what the terms of the Alliance are would be helpful. Other than an axe on the shoulder, what do clubs get? What do the Timbers get out of the deal? How much money changes hands?

* Compared to some places--anywhere in California, Dallas, even Seattle--our local talent pool is small, given our regional population. On the other hand, SLC seems to run a strong academy despite being in a smaller city than Portland is.

* Many soccer fans in town--including those with the Timbers--despise Gavin Wilkinson for a variety of reasons (including some entirely unrelated to youth soccer).

* The GDA/ECNL fight doesn't help--even though this is on the girls' side; both of the ECNL clubs are strong competitors on the boys' side, and seem to resent Peregrine for running Thorns Academy.

* Most of our stronger youth clubs don't have men's teams. (A lot have women's teams participating in the WPSL). Not sure how much of an issue that is, but clubs like Crossfire Premier, in addition to strong youth programs, also have amateur adult squads competing in the 3rd or 4th tier (below USL).

[Unregistered]

I think a lot of you are partially right, and partially wrong.

* Timbers have only recently been starting to act like their academy is something of value, rather than something MLS says they have to do. They are starting to take it more seriously. The manner in which the 05 TA was run last year was a bad joke.

* Running an academy is expensive, and TA is not productive enough to pay for itself yet. It is starting to produce first-team talent, with two Academy prospects with first team deals (though both of them spending a lot of time in T2 working on their games).

* Local club scene is fractured, probably more so than e.g. Seattle where the state association tends to enforce a sharper pyramid (only a handful of clubs get to participate in RCL; the rest are effectively feeders for those that do). Some of these clubs resent the Timbers intrusion into youth soccer and prefer the "old way", when a player would go from NEU or FC or PCU or Westside directly into college, rather than being feeders for the Academy.

* Portland has been, for long time, a basketball town--the NBA has historically stayed out of amateur/youth sports; a very different model than world wide soccer. A strong bias against pro teams running youth academies still exists here.

* Timbers Alliance may have had the unintended side effect of furthering this fracture, as those clubs NOT in the alliance seem to think that the Timbers are constantly conspiring against them. Some greater transparency in what the terms of the Alliance are would be helpful. Other than an axe on the shoulder, what do clubs get? What do the Timbers get out of the deal? How much money changes hands?

* Compared to some places--anywhere in California, Dallas, even Seattle--our local talent pool is small, given our regional population. On the other hand, SLC seems to run a strong academy despite being in a smaller city than Portland is.

* Many soccer fans in town--including those with the Timbers--despise Gavin Wilkinson for a variety of reasons (including some entirely unrelated to youth soccer).

* The GDA/ECNL fight doesn't help--even though this is on the girls' side; both of the ECNL clubs are strong competitors on the boys' side, and seem to resent Peregrine for running Thorns Academy.

* Most of our stronger youth clubs don't have men's teams. (A lot have women's teams participating in the WPSL). Not sure how much of an issue that is, but clubs like Crossfire Premier, in addition to strong youth programs, also have amateur adult squads competing in the 3rd or 4th tier (below USL).

There is less "resentment" of players going to Timbers Academy, or the existence of the Timbers Academy then you think. Mixing OYSA, alliance, and academy is where you have a problem (mixing monetizing, branding, and academy). Plus, unless their is a press release to be had, Gavin and Merritt don't exactly play nice in the kiddy sandboxes.

This town will always need alternative development paths to the MLS-one; some of the push back is assuring that the ecosystem supports multiple paths. Philosophically, you are going to see pushback on any forced consolidation and that is about more than protecting DOC salaries.

ECNL/GDA does muddy the waters a bit - clubs don't like Erik and Mike pimping a competing program on OYSA stationary. But that shouldn't be too hard to fix. Nike clubs get tired of hearing from Westside how ECNL is the worse thing since the inquisition, and then go out and pimp their national travel league.

SLC made what turned out to be a wise choice initially and centered their academy in a soccer hotbed - Arizona. In hindsight, maybe what Timbers should have done.

Crossfire is moving a way from running adult amateur teams - too expensive to run. It is an idealistic model, but running an adult/amateur/low division pro team in this country is a money drain; taking parents' $s and funding that kind of a program has not turned out to be a sustainable model.

[Unregistered]

I think a lot of you are partially right, and partially wrong.

What a relief to know The Eye of Providence (or the all-seeing eye of God) is trolling the internet. Appreciated

* Timbers have only recently been starting to act like their academy is something of value, rather than something MLS says they have to do. They are starting to take it more seriously. The manner in which the 05 TA was run last year was a bad joke.

From day one they have taken their academies seriously with an out of pocket financial investment that is unprecedented for any youth sport endeavor in Oregon History, period. Especially impressive, importing youth players from all corners of the US and now reaching across the globe.

*Running an academy is expensive, and TA is not productive enough to pay for itself yet. It is starting to produce first-team talent, with two Academy prospects with first team deals (though both of them spending a lot of time in T2 working on their games).

Peregrine pays all the costs of it's Academies with an ambition of developing players for regular 1st team placement, yes they do dream of one day 'selling' a player to a top world club and splitting the transfer proceeds with the MLS, as a franchisee in the single entity structure.

* Local club scene is fractured, probably more so than e.g. Seattle where the state association tends to enforce a sharper pyramid (only a handful of clubs get to participate in RCL; the rest are effectively feeders for those that do). Some of these clubs resent the Timbers intrusion into youth soccer and prefer the "old way", when a player would go from FC or Westside directly into college, rather than being feeders for the Academy.

The local club scene is not so much fractured, as it's saturated with too many clubs claiming or branding themselves as premier; NEU/BSC, ADF, Crossfire Oregon, GPS, SouthSide & FC Mulhouse. Without any body of work, talent or staffing that could even resemble even a lay person's definition of 'premier'. (flash in the pan, at best) The once elite embedded top of the Oregon food chain boys clubs; FC & WSM have been reduced to the best of the leftovers, after the Timbers DA takes by the handfuls each year, their very top talent. Keeping the local club playing field somewhat level and diluted, which gives rise to a very thin mantra that the rest of us are somehow suddenly a 'premier club'. These also ran clubs are actually rejoicing that the Timbers DA has somewhat leveled the local club playing field by gutting the best clubs and they stay relatively untouched.

* Portland has been, for long time, a basketball town--the NBA has historically stayed out of amateur/youth sports; a very different model than world wide soccer. A strong bias against pro teams running youth academies still exists here.

The NBA is world's best Basketball league with individual team ownership. The MLS is a single entity, Single-entity is a term used to define the ownership structure of Major League Soccer. It essentially means that all owners own shares of one company, Major League Soccer. There are no shares of each franchise. Owners run franchises that are simply a part of the whole. The youth academies are just another branch of the MLS that must be on their franchisee (Portland) menu. Succinctly, the franchisee (Portland) does what the corporation says, unlike the individual NBA owner who has a NCAA feeder system in place and a 'D' league. Wrapping your mind around this is not easy given the established business operational structure of American Major league sports; NFL, NBA & MLB.

* Timbers Alliance may have had the unintended side effect of furthering this fracture, as those clubs NOT in the alliance seem to think that the Timbers are constantly conspiring against them. Some greater transparency in what the terms of the Alliance are would be helpful. Other than an axe on the shoulder, what do clubs get? What do the Timbers get out of the deal? How much money changes hands?

Paranoia & delusion are psychological conditions that these insecure clubs must overcome on their own. In a effort to help ease your mind on this matter all non-profits list their revenue sources for public consumption, these clubs named Timbers aren't getting squat from the MLS Franchise.

* Compared to some places--anywhere in California, Dallas, even Seattle--our local talent pool is small, given our regional population. On the other hand, SLC seems to run a strong academy despite being in a smaller city than Portland is.

RSL runs a national level Dev. Academy out of Arizona with very few Utah based players.

* Many soccer fans in town--including those with the Timbers--despise Gavin Wilkinson for a variety of reasons (including some entirely unrelated to youth soccer).

Many people despise Paul Allen for a variety of reasons, it's important to note this, right?

* The GDA/ECNL fight doesn't help--even though this is on the girls' side; both of the ECNL clubs are strong competitors on the boys' side, and seem to resent Peregrine for running Thorns Academy.

Which speaks more to insecurity and being marginalized even further in the local club scene. These two clubs made their own beds and may need to re-evaluate some hasty travel plans. Or continue the spiral.

* Most of our stronger youth clubs don't have men's teams. (A lot have women's teams participating in the WPSL). Not sure how much of an issue that is, but clubs like Crossfire Premier, in addition to strong youth programs, also have amateur adult squads competing in the 3rd or 4th tier (below USL).

Giving a platform for former club players to enjoy amateur soccer is refreshing.

[Unregistered]

What a relief to know The Eye of Providence (or the all-seeing eye of God) is trolling the internet. Appreciated

From day one they have taken their academies seriously with an out of pocket financial investment that is unprecedented for any youth sport endeavor in Oregon History, period. Especially impressive, importing youth players from all corners of the US and now reaching across the globe.

Peregrine pays all the costs of it's Academies with an ambition of developing players for regular 1st team placement, yes they do dream of one day 'selling' a player to a top world club and splitting the transfer proceeds with the MLS, as a franchisee in the single entity structure.

The local club scene is not so much fractured, as it's saturated with too many clubs claiming or branding themselves as premier; NEU/BSC, ADF, Crossfire Oregon, GPS, SouthSide & FC Mulhouse. Without any body of work, talent or staffing that could even resemble even a lay person's definition of 'premier'. (flash in the pan, at best) The once elite embedded top of the Oregon food chain boys clubs; FC & WSM have been reduced to the best of the leftovers, after the Timbers DA takes by the handfuls each year, their very top talent. Keeping the local club playing field somewhat level and diluted, which gives rise to a very thin mantra that the rest of us are somehow suddenly a 'premier club'. These also ran clubs are actually rejoicing that the Timbers DA has somewhat leveled the local club playing field by gutting the best clubs and they stay relatively untouched.

The NBA is world's best Basketball league with individual team ownership. The MLS is a single entity, Single-entity is a term used to define the ownership structure of Major League Soccer. It essentially means that all owners own shares of one company, Major League Soccer. There are no shares of each franchise. Owners run franchises that are simply a part of the whole. The youth academies are just another branch of the MLS that must be on their franchisee (Portland) menu. Succinctly, the franchisee (Portland) does what the corporation says, unlike the individual NBA owner who has a NCAA feeder system in place and a 'D' league. Wrapping your mind around this is not easy given the established business operational structure of American Major league sports; NFL, NBA & MLB.

Paranoia & delusion are psychological conditions that these insecure clubs must overcome on their own. In a effort to help ease your mind on this matter all non-profits list their revenue sources for public consumption, these clubs named Timbers aren't getting squat from the MLS Franchise.

RSL runs a national level Dev. Academy out of Arizona with very few Utah based players.

Many people despise Paul Allen for a variety of reasons, it's important to note this, right?

Which speaks more to insecurity and being marginalized even further in the local club scene. These two clubs made their own beds and may need to re-evaluate some hasty travel plans. Or continue the spiral.

Giving a platform for former club players to enjoy amateur soccer is refreshing.

Got nothing bad to say about Westside this week; will return to our regularly scheduled snark at the right time.

Good luck at Surf!

[Unregistered]

Crossfire 1-1 at Surf Cup. What a good showing!

[Unregistered]

What a relief to know The Eye of Providence (or the all-seeing eye of God) is trolling the internet. Appreciated

From day one they have taken their academies seriously with an out of pocket financial investment that is unprecedented for any youth sport endeavor in Oregon History, period. Especially impressive, importing youth players from all corners of the US and now reaching across the globe.

Wrong. Portland Winterhawks. Not only are they running what is essentially a youth hockey academy, but they are making money doing it.

(It's interesting that people seem to be more willing to pay money to watch teenagers play hockey than soccer, but it is what it is).

Timbers are investing more into their academy than anyone else in Oregon--and the comparison to the WHL is perhaps unfair (junior hockey being a long established thing in North America)--but in compared to some of their MLS peers (who operate full-time academies), the TA is a step up from club soccer, but a step down from the global standard.

Which isn't necessarily a bad thing--there is a strong cultural objection to teenagers putting sports ahead of school, which is what happens if you join a full-time academy and soccer becomes your job.

Peregrine pays all the costs of it's Academies with an ambition of developing players for regular 1st team placement, yes they do dream of one day 'selling' a player to a top world club and splitting the transfer proceeds with the MLS, as a franchisee in the single entity structure.

Only one recent player from Oregon has been worth a transfer fee, and Westside didn't get one for him.

The local club scene is not so much fractured, as it's saturated with too many clubs claiming or branding themselves as premier; NEU/BSC, ADF, Crossfire Oregon, GPS, SouthSide & FC Mulhouse. Without any body of work, talent or staffing that could even resemble even a lay person's definition of 'premier'. (flash in the pan, at best) The once elite embedded top of the Oregon food chain boys clubs; FC & WSM have been reduced to the best of the leftovers, after the Timbers DA takes by the handfuls each year, their very top talent. Keeping the local club playing field somewhat level and diluted, which gives rise to a very thin mantra that the rest of us are somehow suddenly a 'premier club'. These also ran clubs are actually rejoicing that the Timbers DA has somewhat leveled the local club playing field by gutting the best clubs and they stay relatively untouched.

And then some of them have the temerity to go lose 9-0 at Surf, while still insisting they could beat the TA. It is amusing, I'll admit.

The NBA is world's best Basketball league with individual team ownership. The MLS is a single entity, Single-entity is a term used to define the ownership structure of Major League Soccer. It essentially means that all owners own shares of one company, Major League Soccer. There are no shares of each franchise. Owners run franchises that are simply a part of the whole. The youth academies are just another branch of the MLS that must be on their franchisee (Portland) menu. Succinctly, the franchisee (Portland) does what the corporation says, unlike the individual NBA owner who has a NCAA feeder system in place and a 'D' league. Wrapping your mind around this is not easy given the established business operational structure of American Major league sports; NFL, NBA & MLB.

Now it's called the "G-league", but the NBA is built on the traditional model, of using NCAA as a semipro (scholarships instead of cash) minor league, along with a bit of a farm system. The relevant point, though, is that NBA teams don't operate youth academies; and the NBA draft has no accommodation for "homegrown" talent. (There used to be a territorial draft long ago in the NBA).

Paranoia & delusion are psychological conditions that these insecure clubs must overcome on their own. In a effort to help ease your mind on this matter all non-profits list their revenue sources for public consumption, these clubs named Timbers aren't getting squat from the MLS Franchise.

But what does the Timbers get from the Alliance clubs? Money? A commitment to refer top players to TA rather than trying to keep them through high school?

RSL runs a national level Dev. Academy out of Arizona with very few Utah based players.

That explains a few things. I wonder what will happen if someone gets the bright idea of putting an MLS franchise in Phoenix--would RSL get expelled from their primary recruiting turf? Or would they be able to block a team moving to AZ?

Interestingly enough, the state of New Mexico is, for some reason, part of Portland's recruiting territory. Not aware of any Alliance clubs down there, though. (Right now there's a bunch in Oregon, one in Vancouver, two in Idaho, and one in Norcal).

Many people despise Paul Allen for a variety of reasons, it's important to note this, right?

Oh, certainly--and often times, fans of a team will hate the owner, especially if he has a reputation for being either a cheapskate or in excessively interfering with the sports professionals he hires to run operations. Allen has a reputation for both at times.

But a few prominent local coaches (cough BM cough) seem to have "f*cking over the Timbers in any way possible" as a primary motivation.

Which speaks more to insecurity and being marginalized even further in the local club scene. These two clubs made their own beds and may need to re-evaluate some hasty travel plans. Or continue the spiral.

Giving a platform for former club players to enjoy amateur soccer is refreshing.

Crossfire and THUSC are doing fine on the girls' side (it's FC that I worry about).

If you want to make money operating a minor-league soccer team, the most important things are a) finding a small local community that will support the team, b) understanding the business model of minor-league sports, and c) finding a venue that will allow you to sell booze. Most of the local youth clubs aren't in a position to do this.

[Unregistered]

RSL moved to Salt Lake area last year.

Barcelona runs an Academy in Arizona.

[Unregistered]

Screw over Timbers? Not intention and may not be possible.

Do need to protection space for independent clubs. Given the breadth of the Timbers' industrial complex, takes work.

[Unregistered]

How are things going at Harmony DA friendlies today? Besides hosts, Eastside (WA), Seattle United, Santa Rosa, Capital, UPDX.

[Unregistered]

Wrong. Portland Winterhawks. Not only are they running what is essentially a youth hockey academy, but they are making money doing it. (It's interesting that people seem to be more willing to pay money to watch teenagers play hockey than soccer, but it is what it is). Timbers are investing more into their academy than anyone else in Oregon--and the comparison to the WHL is perhaps unfair (junior hockey being a long established thing in North America)--but in compared to some of their MLS peers (who operate full-time academies), the TA is a step up from club soccer, but a step down from the global standard. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing--there is a strong cultural objection to teenagers putting sports ahead of school, which is what happens if you join a full-time academy and soccer becomes your job.

Sorry you are incorrect, the WinterHawks with young men aged 18-21 on average which resemble and operate as minor league team, akin to the T2 and the Hillsboro Hops baseball, basically minor league professional or 'farm teams'.

They Timbers Youth Academy starts at age 12-13 & stops at age 17-18 and then the best move on to the T2 squad, some playing with the minor league pro team as young as 16 & 17 just like the WinterHawks. We have no fully funded developmental academy for youth players aged 12-18 for Hockey in Oregon or for any other american youth sporting activity.
Adidas & Nike Sponsored AAU basketball squads with sketch coaching yes. Now 7 v 7 Football is getting into this business of pimping youth.

Only one recent player from Oregon has been worth a transfer fee, and Westside didn't get one for him.And then some of them have the temerity to go lose 9-0 at Surf, while still insisting they could beat the TA.

Many players from Oregon have been worth transfer/training fees, problem is the league they go to, the MLS has never honored this worldwide practice of paying local clubs development compensation. But the one recent player who went abroad to holland and has been shipped to 3 countries and 4 clubs since, in search of finding playing time is on the docket with FIFA to get the fees from the pro clubs paid directly to the local Oregon Club. Which is remarkable.

It is amusing, I'll admit.Now it's called the "G-league", but the NBA is built on the traditional model, of using NCAA as a semipro (scholarships instead of cash) minor league, along with a bit of a farm system. The relevant point, though, is that NBA teams don't operate youth academies; and the NBA draft has no accommodation for "homegrown" talent. (There used to be a territorial draft long ago in the NBA).
But what does the Timbers get from the Alliance clubs? Money? A commitment to refer top players to TA rather than trying to keep them through high school? That explains a few things. I wonder what will happen if someone gets the bright idea of putting an MLS franchise in Phoenix--would RSL get expelled from their primary recruiting turf? Or would they be able to block a team moving to AZ? Interestingly enough, the state of New Mexico is, for some reason, part of Portland's recruiting territory. Not aware of any Alliance clubs down there, though. (Right now there's a bunch in Oregon, one in Vancouver, two in Idaho, and one in Norcal).

Not sure what this passage was about but it conveyed your opinions and thoughts.

Oh, certainly--and often times, fans of a team will hate the owner, especially if he has a reputation for being either a cheapskate or in excessively interfering with the sports professionals he hires to run operations. Allen has a reputation for both at times.But a few prominent local coaches (cough BM cough) seem to have "f*cking over the Timbers in any way possible" as a primary motivation.

Allen's machinations are well documented. BM is hardly what any longtime Oregon Soccer aficionado would consider or even cough up the notion of being 'prominent. For if he were actually relevant and had some prominence or power he would pay no mind to the F$*& Timbers. Just a silly little angry man spouting off, which goes to his insecurity hardly the makings of a person held in any high regard.

Crossfire and THUSC are doing fine on the girls' side (it's FC that I worry about).

To be clear the label Crossfire is littered all over the local club landscape, without any real identity.

* Crossfire United is a THUSC based splinter group that forms girls teams(4 to 5 of them) and they dual register in USYS/OYSA and US Club Soccer. Associated with High Travel costswith the end game of being seen by coaches. (due to travel)

* Crossfire Oregon is a joint, splinter club effort born from SSC, WUSC & LOSC for boys and girls above the age of 12. It's had many iterations, differeent clubs come and go and they have carried labels like OSSA & SPARQ for example. Who knows what there next branding name will be, rumor is they are chasing the .Surf' name as of late.
Present Day it's an LOSC Girls run Crossfire Oregon & a WUSC/WUFC Crossfire Oregon boys side.

*Crossfire Oregon DA is the landing sport for 10 to 14 year old boys on the clubs 1st team.

*THUSC is another in a long list of clubs trying to find an identity due to having no boys presence and a girls program systematically gutted by the DA & CU.

If that's your definition of 'fine' so be it.