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    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Nearly every soccer club in Oregon today with revenues over 500k annually are by no means in practice a 'non-profits org.' Far from it. They only have the tag (np) because the OYSA mandates it and in most cases they inherited it from a group of caring volunteer parents who in the 70's & 80's wanted their kids to have a platform to play this foreign sport.

    Look at youth Baseball, Basketball, Football, LAX, Softball these days their competitive 'clubs' have Owners not boards. They are for profit and they run it as a business enterprise. The practices of these for profit youth clubs mirrors the so called 'non-profits' in Soccer, except they don't get to avoid property or income tax like non profits. Which is a remarkable loophole and allows for a better cash flow for things like payroll.

    I agree it's not a good idea or practice for a local club to call themselves a non-profit when they are a defacto for profit business, but nobody has turned them into the IRS, so it's business as usual for this ilk of vagabond mercenaries. Until the light switch goes off at the US Treasury.

    Unlike the spade calling themselves a spade; the Timbers/Thorns who as a for profit entity contract services with the State Non profit Youth Soccer organization OYSA.. They don't shy away from it, if you don't like it, please go re write the 10 year deal OYSA signed.

    Spare us the sanctimous BS about for profit and non profit angle, it holds no water. The entire youth sports 'club model' across all sports is merely a racket that feeds off the delusions of hopeful parents who don't have a clue.

    Amazing you were able to type that long on a subject you appear to know nothing about.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      Amazing you were able to type that long on a subject you appear to know nothing about.
      First paragraph. Totally wrong. They run too much like non profits and that's a bad thing.

      Paragraph two. Clearly you just made that up. Couldn't be farther from the truth.

      Paragraph three. It's like a bunch of unrelated words were put into a bag a shook up and dumped on the page. Painful to read.

      Paragraph four. Don't even know what to say.

      Your high school writing teacher would be sad.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        Nearly every soccer club in Oregon today with revenues over 500k annually are by no means in practice a 'non-profits org.' Far from it. They only have the tag (np) because the OYSA mandates it and in most cases they inherited it from a group of caring volunteer parents who in the 70's & 80's wanted their kids to have a platform to play this foreign sport.

        Look at youth Baseball, Basketball, Football, LAX, Softball these days their competitive 'clubs' have Owners not boards. They are for profit and they run it as a business enterprise. The practices of these for profit youth clubs mirrors the so called 'non-profits' in Soccer, except they don't get to avoid property or income tax like non profits. Which is a remarkable loophole and allows for a better cash flow for things like payroll.

        I agree it's not a good idea or practice for a local club to call themselves a non-profit when they are a defacto for profit business, but nobody has turned them into the IRS, so it's business as usual for this ilk of vagabond mercenaries. Until the light switch goes off at the US Treasury.

        Unlike the spade calling themselves a spade; the Timbers/Thorns who as a for profit entity contract services with the State Non profit Youth Soccer organization OYSA.. They don't shy away from it, if you don't like it, please go re write the 10 year deal OYSA signed.

        Spare us the sanctimous BS about for profit and non profit angle, it holds no water. The entire youth sports 'club model' across all sports is merely a racket that feeds off the delusions of hopeful parents who don't have a clue.
        Paragraph 1: It's hard to believe a non-profit neighborhood soccer club can pay a much better salary to it's DOC than than the for profit MLS does for a starting left back.

        Paragraph2: click this link http://www.osaa.org/docs/handbooks/P...ule6APilot.pdf
        Scroll down to Q13, you are correct even the governing body of all HS sports recognizes that youth clubs in Oregon have Owners.

        Paragraph 3: The IRS has already nailed them about 1099's and employee status, don't worry the next shoe will drop.

        Paragraph 4: Tell us something we don't know.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Paragraph 1: It's hard to believe a non-profit neighborhood soccer club can pay a much better salary to it's DOC than than the for profit MLS does for a starting left back.

          Paragraph2: click this link http://www.osaa.org/docs/handbooks/P...ule6APilot.pdf
          Scroll down to Q13, you are correct even the governing body of all HS sports recognizes that youth clubs in Oregon have Owners.

          Paragraph 3: The IRS has already nailed them about 1099's and employee status, don't worry the next shoe will drop.

          Paragraph 4: Tell us something we don't know.

          1. So what? The fact the MLS doesn't pay well is about as relevant and the fact that monkeys swing from trees. Hint: it's not.

          2. OSAA governs high school sports but their opinion is relevant how?. Nothing to do with clubs. Yes clubs in oregon have owners. The owners are non-profit corporations in about 99% of the occasions.

          3. What the heck do 1099s and reporting status have to do with anything? 1099s are an annoying report that poorly run organizations all over the country don't file. What the heck does that have to do with anything? You pay a small penalty and move on.

          4. You might as well have said monkeys swing in trees. In fact that might have been more relevant than what you actually said.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            The people who think it's valuable to argue on TS.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Paragraph 1: It's hard to believe a non-profit neighborhood soccer club can pay a much better salary to it's DOC than than the for profit MLS does for a starting left back.

              Paragraph2: click this link http://www.osaa.org/docs/handbooks/P...ule6APilot.pdf
              Scroll down to Q13, you are correct even the governing body of all HS sports recognizes that youth clubs in Oregon have Owners.

              Paragraph 3: The IRS has already nailed them about 1099's and employee status, don't worry the next shoe will drop.

              Paragraph 4: Tell us something we don't know.
              13. Q. Under the Practice Limitation Rule (6A Pilot), may a coach own a club on which there are teams, which include members of his/her school?
              A. Yes, but the coach may not personally coach a team with members of his/her school in the activity he/she coaches at that high school during the Closed Period. During the Open Period the coach may conduct fundamental skill development and/or conditioning but may not coach members of his/her school in a contest in the activity he/she coaches at that high school.

              Questions
              1.Since club directors & coaches don't "own" the non-profit clubs, is that how they can coach both club and school soccer?
              2. When OSAA says they can't coach the same "activity", does that mean it isn't gender specific? Can a boys high school soccer coach, not coach boys or girls in the activity of "soccer" from the high school they coach at or are "boys soccer" and "girls soccer" considered by OSAA to be different "activities"?

              Comment


                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                13. Q. Under the Practice Limitation Rule (6A Pilot), may a coach own a club on which there are teams, which include members of his/her school?
                A. Yes, but the coach may not personally coach a team with members of his/her school in the activity he/she coaches at that high school during the Closed Period. During the Open Period the coach may conduct fundamental skill development and/or conditioning but may not coach members of his/her school in a contest in the activity he/she coaches at that high school.

                Questions
                1.Since club directors & coaches don't "own" the non-profit clubs, is that how they can coach both club and school soccer?
                2. When OSAA says they can't coach the same "activity", does that mean it isn't gender specific? Can a boys high school soccer coach, not coach boys or girls in the activity of "soccer" from the high school they coach at or are "boys soccer" and "girls soccer" considered by OSAA to be different "activities"?
                Q1: No, the OSAA uses the term club 'owner' and applies it the owners of a youth sport club, since the majority of the established Soccer Clubs are registered with OYSA they must be structured as non profits, without 'Owners'. Youth club directors are treated as 'Owners' by the OSAA, and can coach at a HS no problem, they just can't coach their HS players on a club team during scrimmages/games or during any established closed periods. So they can run a club practice session during the OSAA open periods, just no game/scrimmage coaching during the OSAA calendar year. Now with the emergence of the multi layered DA & private soccer/futsal training operations, those private coaches who also work at a 6A HS must follow the same rules.

                Q2: Here is a link to how OSAA defines it's Activities: http://www.osaa.org/activities

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  1. So what? The fact the MLS doesn't pay well is about as relevant and the fact that monkeys swing from trees. Hint: it's not.

                  2. OSAA governs high school sports but their opinion is relevant how?. Nothing to do with clubs. Yes clubs in oregon have owners. The owners are non-profit corporations in about 99% of the occasions.

                  3. What the heck do 1099s and reporting status have to do with anything? 1099s are an annoying report that poorly run organizations all over the country don't file. What the heck does that have to do with anything? You pay a small penalty and move on.

                  4. You might as well have said monkeys swing in trees. In fact that might have been more relevant than what you actually said.
                  1. Could you imagine the local AAU, Pop Warner, Legion Baseball coach/director making a better salary than an NBA, NFL , MLB regular? In the American sports business model pros make millions and youth coaches make squat. Youth soccer turned that reality upside down on it's head. Which is bizarre.
                  2. Non Profits are not allowed to have 'Owners' per the IRS and fed.
                  3. The IRS and state have investigated the payment practices of many local non profit soccer clubs, as a result they mandated a re-classification of coaches as employees, not independent contractors (1099). It follows they (State/IRS) also have the reach and power to change a (club) non-profit status to a for-profit corp. Youth sports business practices at a club level are very blurred when it comes to distinguishing a for profit & a non profit they are basically the same animal as evidenced by the OSAA recognizing 'Owners' as it's catch all for youth club directors.

                  As the youth club, private business model continues to grow and evolve Uncle Sam may want his take of the action. or maybe he doesn't. Time will tell. Interesting times.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    1. Could you imagine the local AAU, Pop Warner, Legion Baseball coach/director making a better salary than an NBA, NFL , MLB regular? In the American sports business model pros make millions and youth coaches make squat. Youth soccer turned that reality upside down on it's head. Which is bizarre.
                    2. Non Profits are not allowed to have 'Owners' per the IRS and fed.
                    3. The IRS and state have investigated the payment practices of many local non profit soccer clubs, as a result they mandated a re-classification of coaches as employees, not independent contractors (1099). It follows they (State/IRS) also have the reach and power to change a (club) non-profit status to a for-profit corp. Youth sports business practices at a club level are very blurred when it comes to distinguishing a for profit & a non profit they are basically the same animal as evidenced by the OSAA recognizing 'Owners' as it's catch all for youth club directors.

                    As the youth club, private business model continues to grow and evolve Uncle Sam may want his take of the action. or maybe he doesn't. Time will tell. Interesting times.
                    You spend a lot of time ripping on local youth clubs - clearly have an agenda.

                    Either a Timbers' employee or an alliance leader.

                    Sorry you sold out bro.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Q1: No, the OSAA uses the term club 'owner' and applies it the owners of a youth sport club, since the majority of the established Soccer Clubs are registered with OYSA they must be structured as non profits, without 'Owners'. Youth club directors are treated as 'Owners' by the OSAA, and can coach at a HS no problem, they just can't coach their HS players on a club team during scrimmages/games or during any established closed periods. So they can run a club practice session during the OSAA open periods, just no game/scrimmage coaching during the OSAA calendar year. Now with the emergence of the multi layered DA & private soccer/futsal training operations, those private coaches who also work at a 6A HS must follow the same rules.

                      Q2: Here is a link to how OSAA defines it's Activities: http://www.osaa.org/activities
                      With many high school coaches coming from clubs, the DOCs that run those clubs can easily influence high school coaching decisions & roster choices by their club employees/coaches that also coach high school. This can have an even bigger impact than being there to physically coach the same high school & club players. Does OSAA have any rules covering this common situation across Oregon? It seems clubs completely rule even the high school soccer scene in Oregon. Not necessarily bad, especially for those that play for the club that the high school coach is from.

                      Comment


                        The guy posting here is posting complete gibberish.

                        The fed? Did you just throw that out there to be nonsensical?

                        Non profits can't have owners? What are you talking about? Nobody said they do. Clubs have non profit organizations that own them.

                        This is like arguing with a cat.

                        Comment


                          "The IRS and state have investigated the payment practices of many local non profit soccer clubs, as a result they mandated a re-classification of coaches as employees, not independent contractors (1099). It follows they (State/IRS) also have the reach and power to change a (club) non-profit status to a for-profit corp. Youth sports business practices at a club level are very blurred when it comes to distinguishing a for profit & a non profit they are basically the same animal as evidenced by the OSAA recognizing 'Owners' as it's catch all for youth club directors"


                          Dude stop. Just stop. You have no idea what you are talking about. I suspect you are trying to be funny by posting false gobbledygook. It's not funny.

                          Comment


                            The Multnomah County Sheriff's Department staked out a local intersection and investigated the driving practices of a director of a local non profit sports team and found a violation serious enough to issue a citation and court demand to appear. In other words a moving violation! It was only a failure to signal a turn, but I'm sure it's just the tip of the ice berg and the other shoe will drop on possible other more serious behavior soon enough. If they don't signal while turning a motor vehicle, what other deviant things might they be doing behind closed doors?? It boggles the mind. The FED and the Feds could get involved. The post office might want to investigate their property tax status. Proper authorities will want to pull up the 1099s and 1040s of everyone involved. This is going to be huge.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              The guy posting here is posting complete gibberish.

                              The fed? Did you just throw that out there to be nonsensical?

                              Non profits can't have owners? What are you talking about? Nobody said they do. Clubs have non profit organizations that own them.

                              This is like arguing with a cat.
                              Since I work in the non-profit field, not OP, here is what you need to wrap your mind around:A nonprofit corporation has no owners whatsoever, only stakeholders. A stakeholder is not an owner, but rather someone who has a stake in the successful operation of the organization. Stakeholders could be members of the nonprofit, or even beneficiaries of the nonprofit’s activities. One thing stakeholders have in common: they have no legal ability to profit personally…hence, nonprofit. A nonprofit corporation is formed to carry out a public purpose, whether that be religious, educational, charitable, scientific or whatever. It is prohibited from acting in a manner that results in private inurement (profit) to individuals.

                              How can that be? Someone has to own it, right? No, not really. The nonprofit organization is not “owned” by the person or persons that started it. It is a public organization that belongs to the public at-large. The parties responsible to operate the organization for the stakeholders are the members of the board of directors.

                              Also, a nonprofit corporation cannot be sold. It is simply not possible. If a nonprofit corporation were to “close down”, or dissolve, the board of directors of the nonprofit must distribute all of the nonprofit’s assets to another nonprofit corporation after all debts have been settled.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                "The IRS and state have investigated the payment practices of many local non profit soccer clubs, as a result they mandated a re-classification of coaches as employees, not independent contractors (1099). It follows they (State/IRS) also have the reach and power to change a (club) non-profit status to a for-profit corp. Youth sports business practices at a club level are very blurred when it comes to distinguishing a for profit & a non profit they are basically the same animal as evidenced by the OSAA recognizing 'Owners' as it's catch all for youth club directors".
                                This is correct, The federal and state governments care a lot about how workers are classified. Not surprisingly, the root of their concern is money. Your company doesn’t have to withhold or pay taxes (including expensive payroll taxes such as Social Security and Medicare) for an independent contractor, and it will have fewer legal obligations to an independent contractor than to an employee. Thus, it’s often in a company’s interest to call a worker an independent contractor.
                                By contrast, it’s in the government’s interest to label the worker as an employee: The more employees there are in this world, the more money flows straight into government coffers through payroll withholding (and the fewer opportunities workers have to hide or underreport their income).
                                Unfortunately, there are as many tests to determine whether a worker qualifies as an independent contractor as there are government agencies that deal with workers, from your state unemployment office to the federal Internal Revenue Service. Figuring out how to treat a worker so that agencies classify the worker as an independent contractor can be a complicated undertaking.
                                Employers who don’t learn the rules before they hire an independent contractor can get hopelessly confused—and get into trouble with one agency or another. To avoid problems such as audits, fines, and taxes, you should learn the rules of all of the following agencies before you hire a worker.

                                The State of Oregon and the IRS (Fed) have changed the classification of youth coaches from Independent Contractors to Employees at many OYSA member clubs, this is old news, not sure why anyone would argue this reality. You look foolish trying to argue something that is factual.

                                Comment

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