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ODP . . . why all midfielders? Why stigma on Defense?

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    #16
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Yeah right. Forwards have an uncanny and innate ability to play defense. They stay in the open field and run as much as possible with little discipline. They often lack technical skills of mids and are not as sure-footed, aggressive, and risk-averse as backs. Don't belittle the backs as skill-less twits. The good ones that are fast and competent are as rare as the good forwards or mids.
    More nonsense. All the descriptions i read of players by position are describing bad players irrespective of position. If what you say is true, then what are you wasting your time with ODP ? A platform for ( basis your descriptions) bad players?

    You must think all coaches are idiots if they cant see what you can. As a parent of a kid playing in college, believe me, coaches are not dumb. The reason many recruit athletic ability is because its the most reliable attribute to build a tea,m year in year out around and most do not have the luxury of tenor and time to build a team that wins playing possession based beautiful soccer.

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      #17
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      Yeah right. Forwards have an uncanny and innate ability to play defense. They stay in the open field and run as much as possible with little discipline. They often lack technical skills of mids and are not as sure-footed, aggressive, and risk-averse as backs. Don't belittle the backs as skill-less twits. The good ones that are fast and competent are as rare as the good forwards or mids.
      Don’t take it personally as no one said a back was skill less. However kids should be able to slot into different positions especially as they get older.

      Many forwards and midfielders end up playing defense in college.

      Comment


        #18
        Interchangeable? at younger ages yes

        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        the stupidity in this thread. more like when the vast majority of players are interchangeable, decisions are made using other factors.

        what that does is make parents come up with idiotic theories to justify not being selected
        the person who posted this thread got selected to regional and whatever international it seems. they are not making excuses for selection but perhaps for losing games. but yes, tons of idiotic theories on selection.

        our U14 club team had the two center D's recently sit out a game due to injury and schedule conflicts. in their place were the two most incredible general midfield athletes with great foot skills. we lost at home to the bottom team in the league, it wasn't even close. Interchangeable they were not. The other team's forwards had a fun time just picking off their passes to each other, picking off their pullbacks & rondo, them switching the field across the front of the goal, being offensive minded and not covering, them facing pressure and kicking it out over goal line thinking a throw in, too stiff a pass back to goalie (which scored), etc . . . all of which usually works awesomely in the midfield but not when there's only a net or goal line behind you. it was painful to watch, extremely painful for those two girls.

        probably good experience, and sure any player can learn those things over time but not interchangeable in the ODP pick up game sense.

        by U13/U14 the good D instinctively knows where to be or what to do, and how bad a corner kick against or any mistake can be. there's a reason why offensive substitutes come and go, but the center D's or Goalie stay in the whole game at any level of club or professional. our club coach declared for subsequent games those 2 D's can never both miss again. It was like when we only had one goalie, poor goalie. Sucks for these two center D's who are now on permanent duty. gosh forbid they have a social life. you never hear that coach complain (too much) when forwards or mids can't make a game because on a good team they are a dime a dozen. Come U15-17 that all sorts out too.

        anyway, had the two center D's magically quit the team, you would have a completely different team and different (totally miserable) experience inevitably coming your way so I can feel for the posting parent who lost that.

        so the ODP star/interchangeable method does not work come 11v11, and the ODP coaches won't change their Brazilian style of glamorizing individual play. But to be fair, ODP really means U9-U12 and the heart of it is 9v9. At that age the general skill gravitates to the middle of the field and interchangeable is a fair statement as the kids run all around the field and all dream of scoring. We enjoyed our ODP experience. Met new coaches & players, and those coaches created opportunities when clubs or coaches come and go. But at older ages ODP is like being the 24 year old grad student at the frat party.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          the person who posted this thread got selected to regional and whatever international it seems. they are not making excuses for selection but perhaps for losing games. but yes, tons of idiotic theories on selection.

          our U14 club team had the two center D's recently sit out a game due to injury and schedule conflicts. in their place were the two most incredible general midfield athletes with great foot skills. we lost at home to the bottom team in the league, it wasn't even close. Interchangeable they were not. The other team's forwards had a fun time just picking off their passes to each other, picking off their pullbacks & rondo, them switching the field across the front of the goal, being offensive minded and not covering, them facing pressure and kicking it out over goal line thinking a throw in, too stiff a pass back to goalie (which scored), etc . . . all of which usually works awesomely in the midfield but not when there's only a net or goal line behind you. it was painful to watch, extremely painful for those two girls.

          probably good experience, and sure any player can learn those things over time but not interchangeable in the ODP pick up game sense.

          by U13/U14 the good D instinctively knows where to be or what to do, and how bad a corner kick against or any mistake can be. there's a reason why offensive substitutes come and go, but the center D's or Goalie stay in the whole game at any level of club or professional. our club coach declared for subsequent games those 2 D's can never both miss again. It was like when we only had one goalie, poor goalie. Sucks for these two center D's who are now on permanent duty. gosh forbid they have a social life. you never hear that coach complain (too much) when forwards or mids can't make a game because on a good team they are a dime a dozen. Come U15-17 that all sorts out too.

          anyway, had the two center D's magically quit the team, you would have a completely different team and different (totally miserable) experience inevitably coming your way so I can feel for the posting parent who lost that.

          so the ODP star/interchangeable method does not work come 11v11, and the ODP coaches won't change their Brazilian style of glamorizing individual play. But to be fair, ODP really means U9-U12 and the heart of it is 9v9. At that age the general skill gravitates to the middle of the field and interchangeable is a fair statement as the kids run all around the field and all dream of scoring. We enjoyed our ODP experience. Met new coaches & players, and those coaches created opportunities when clubs or coaches come and go. But at older ages ODP is like being the 24 year old grad student at the frat party.
          you miss the point. it does work when you have time to coach kids up and put them in a system that emphasizes strengths. Can you pluck any kid off the street? no. Point is the kids you say struggled are probably just not as good as you think they are.

          Bottom line - for all the $$ spent, the players we are producing are not good.

          https://twitter.com/BballCoachMac/st...62447948820482

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            the person who posted this thread got selected to regional and whatever international it seems. they are not making excuses for selection but perhaps for losing games. but yes, tons of idiotic theories on selection.

            our U14 club team had the two center D's recently sit out a game due to injury and schedule conflicts. in their place were the two most incredible general midfield athletes with great foot skills. we lost at home to the bottom team in the league, it wasn't even close. Interchangeable they were not. The other team's forwards had a fun time just picking off their passes to each other, picking off their pullbacks & rondo, them switching the field across the front of the goal, being offensive minded and not covering, them facing pressure and kicking it out over goal line thinking a throw in, too stiff a pass back to goalie (which scored), etc . . . all of which usually works awesomely in the midfield but not when there's only a net or goal line behind you. it was painful to watch, extremely painful for those two girls.

            probably good experience, and sure any player can learn those things over time but not interchangeable in the ODP pick up game sense.

            by U13/U14 the good D instinctively knows where to be or what to do, and how bad a corner kick against or any mistake can be. there's a reason why offensive substitutes come and go, but the center D's or Goalie stay in the whole game at any level of club or professional. our club coach declared for subsequent games those 2 D's can never both miss again. It was like when we only had one goalie, poor goalie. Sucks for these two center D's who are now on permanent duty. gosh forbid they have a social life. you never hear that coach complain (too much) when forwards or mids can't make a game because on a good team they are a dime a dozen. Come U15-17 that all sorts out too.

            anyway, had the two center D's magically quit the team, you would have a completely different team and different (totally miserable) experience inevitably coming your way so I can feel for the posting parent who lost that.

            so the ODP star/interchangeable method does not work come 11v11, and the ODP coaches won't change their Brazilian style of glamorizing individual play. But to be fair, ODP really means U9-U12 and the heart of it is 9v9. At that age the general skill gravitates to the middle of the field and interchangeable is a fair statement as the kids run all around the field and all dream of scoring. We enjoyed our ODP experience. Met new coaches & players, and those coaches created opportunities when clubs or coaches come and go. But at older ages ODP is like being the 24 year old grad student at the frat party.
            If two midfielders quit the team, you'd have a different team. If two forwards, quit the team you'd have a different team. Stop being so full of yourself! And get a social life, any kid on a high level team is not missing games for social engagements. So clearly your child is not high level if that is even a thought you have.

            Comment


              #21
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Don’t take it personally as no one said a back was skill less. However kids should be able to slot into different positions especially as they get older.

              Many forwards and midfielders end up playing defense in college.
              But as the kids get older, things get more specialized by position, no?

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                But as the kids get older, things get more specialized by position, no?
                It should be avoided when possible.
                Versatile players are attractive to coaches. Also if you only do one thing and are ousted by someone better, then what do you do?

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  It should be avoided when possible.
                  Versatile players are attractive to coaches. Also if you only do one thing and are ousted by someone better, then what do you do?
                  you go play lacrosse

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    you go play lacrosse
                    actually, you join ODP and them you are a midfielder !

                    Comment


                      #25
                      What do you expect? Look at the past all state ct teams for high school girls or boys. i think they put 22 kids in the list. 8 are strikers 10 are midfielder 2 are defenders and 2 are goalies.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        What do you expect? Look at the past all state ct teams for high school girls or boys. i think they put 22 kids in the list. 8 are strikers 10 are midfielder 2 are defenders and 2 are goalies.
                        you are right, I think. the list I saw doesn't specify position so you'd have to know who those girls are. but you are right in your point. but you left out that high school and ODP are the same thing in terms of quality of soccer (and parents, and coaches) therefore what the list looks for. those lists are analogous to saying baseball's home run derby participants are the all-star team. they are indeed the funnest to watch and easiest to quantify. therefore the easiest to vote for or select for ODP.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          I think the solution is the OP should tell their kid to play D.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            ODP in CT is a joke. The coaches are not invested in ODP, skip training, and skip games pretty regularly. So, coaches don't know their players. As a result, coaches ask the kids where they want to play and has no clue where they should play for the team the coach has.

                            Don't waste your time.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              ODP in CT is a joke. The coaches are not invested in ODP, skip training, and skip games pretty regularly. So, coaches don't know their players. As a result, coaches ask the kids where they want to play and has no clue where they should play for the team the coach has.

                              Don't waste your time.
                              The only goal anyone should have out of participating in state ODP is to make the regional team. That's a nice feather in your cap. But otherwise, there's no point.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Odp

                                Put a fork in it - ODP is dead in CT. Maybe other parts of the country where there are less competitive programs/clubs - ODP still has relevance. In CT we focus on 2nd rate academy battles - OW v BS, 2nd rate ECNL battles - FSA v CFC, 2nd (or if pro-ECNL boys 3rd rate) NPL battles - FSA v CFC or EDP v NPL, and the spat of pop up clubs and has been club premier, town travels in premier and dying former regional clubs (names removed to protect the guilty and innocent.)

                                Best or worst thing I ever heard from a D1 coach at an ID camp my kid went to (full disclosure kid wants to go D3 for academics) - 4 worst states to do club soccer on the east coast - 1. CT, 2. VT, 3. ME. I guess NH and RI get a pass because they can be pulled in with easier commutes to MA.

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