Why is the Portland Timbers DA so bad?

[Unregistered]

Timbers youth academy is run by a bunch of puppets who are a joke (smith and sunderland) and coached by an even bigger bunch of chumps who are only focused on lining their pockets, hasson is the worst offender of the bunch and a complete hypocrite who is completely driven by the private training funds he gets tax free from parents with a wink wink side deal that little Johnny will make the team. The sad part is everyone knows it and yet chooses to turn a blind eye so they don’t ruin their own gravy train. To hell with true youth development and integrity right.....

[Unregistered]

You make the excuse that population base is the reason but that is not the case. Seattle California etc have multiple academies and when broken down that way most pull from similar numbers.

You need to re-read the post you replied to. It says Oregon under-produces for its population. It can do better.

[Unregistered]

I think that soccer growth in popularity has led to more parody across the nation. Oregon was an early adopter to the soccer culture and may have reaped the benefits as a result. Now that all states are cultivating their own identity in soccer you're going to see the bigger States getting more the accolades. You can take football as a comparison.

Soccer is actually declining in participation quite dramatically the last few years.

[Unregistered]

Here are the ones that at least reached 40+ games at the top level in the states or abroad,
* Rubio Rubin ('96, USMNT, Club Tijuana, Westside Metros, IMG Academy)
* Danny Mwanga ('91 MLS ROY-2010-Phil/Portland/Colorado/Orlando City, Oregon State U, Westside Metros)
* Erik Hurtado('90, Vancouver Whitecaps, Santa Clara University, Westside Metros, USYNT)
* Chad Barrett ('85, Real Salt Lake, UCLA, Westside Metros).
* Ty Harden ('84, Chicago Fire/Tor, U. of Washington, FC Portland & OUSA)
* Rod Dyachenko ('83 DC United, UNLV, Westside Metros & FC Portland)
* Ryan Cochrane ('83, New England Revolution, Santa Clara University, West Villa)
* Nate Jaqua ('81, Seattle Sounders FC, U of Portland, South Eugene HS, OUSA)
* Chris Brown ('77, RSL, U. of Portland, THUSC & FC PDX)
* Scott Benedetti ('66, U of Portland, MLS & Mexico, ***** S, Centennial HS)


*Players listed below either didn't play at least 40 games in the MLS or NASL (yet) or they played in lower leagues, **some are just beginning to carve out a possible top flight career.
** Marco Farfan ('98, Portland Timbers, Timbers Academy, Eastside Timbers)
**Niko de Vera ('96, NY Red Bulls 2, Akron Univ, Timbers Academy, Westside Metros,)
** Foster Langsdorf ('95, Portland Timbers, Stanford University, FC Portland, CPSC)
*Dustin Corea ('92, El Salvador Edmonton CA, Eastside) Developed in L.A. though.
*Steven Evans ('91, Sac Republic, WSM & Eastside, Central Catholic)
*Alex Nimo ('90, US U20, IMG, FC Portland)
*Brent Richards ('90, Portland Timbers Reno 1868, U of Washington, Eastside)
*Ross Shrunk ('86, Colorado Rapids, Redlands U, Wilson HS, FC PDX)
*Ian Fuller ('79, New England Revolution, Clemson, FC Portland Tualatin HS)
*Andrew Gregor ('75, Columbus Crew, U of Portland, FC Portland. Current assistant with T2).
*Paul Conway ('70, Northampton Town, Hartwick College, Jesuit HS)
*Joey Leonotti ('70, Seattle Sounders, U of Portland, Gladstone HS)
* Jim Gorsek GK ('55, S.D Sockers MISL)

Some MLS or high level players that were either born in Oregon, maybe not developed here and 1 or 2 that played club soccer locally for a short time.

^Josh Saunders ('81, Puerto Rico NT, NYCFC, Cal).Not sure if he played in Oregon
^CJ Brown ('75, Chicago Fire, San Jose State) Not sure if he played in Oregon
^Heath Pearce ('84, Montreal Impact, Univ of Portland, West Villa)
^Mike Getchell( '63, Monterrey, UCLA) Grew up in Brasil & had brief stay in Portland

[Unregistered]

There are enough players in the metro area to build good teams. Trouble is that the PTFC management is not interested in true development and are the exact problem with the game in our country.

PTFC needs a complete overhaul with a new vision that mimics European clubs. Clubs that spend up to $7 million on their academies from age 8-19.

Not an academy where they run every player into the ground while only giving a select few at 13 years old the attention. They are missing the boat on 90% of the players in the area because they put all their chips in a select few at 14 years old and then bitch two years later when they don’t pan out and then decide to go out of state to grab a player who by the way never pans out either....all the while you have local talent like Rubio Rubin and Niko DeVera from Canas playing for the New York Red Bull’s because PTFC can’t figure out their local talent. I vote they send PTFC staff down to FC Dallas to learn how to end up with your starting 11 as all homegrown players....until then PTFC will waste their resources in south anerica

While parts of your complaints may have merit, your discussion of the two Westside players undermines your argument. The Timbers didn't "miss" either.

de Vera was a fixture on the TA throughout his high school career. He chose to attend college rather than turn pro, and the Timbers chose not to maintain his homegrown status (I don't know what the limitations are on how many homegrowns they can carry). So when he graduated, he had to enter MLS through the draft and was selected by NYRB. Now, it is possible for an MLS team to keep a player's homegrown rights while they play college ball, as the Timbers did do with Foster Langsdorf (and Seattle did with Jordan Morris), but I don't know the limitations on how many homegrowns can be carried.

As far as Rubin goes--he's simply too good for MLS. End of story. He went to IMG academy--an elite residential academy in Florida, and miles better than Timbers Academy (especially a few years ago when he was still a youth). And he went directly to Europe after his youth career, and is now in Liga MX. I'm sure the Timbers would have loved to have kept him in the system, but he had far better options. Suggesting that the Timbers "missed" or ignored him his asinine. He's probably the best male player to ever come out of Oregon (among players older than 25, its either Hurtado or Barrett, both with lengthy MLS careers), his abilities were widely known in the local soccer community, and even as a youth had doors open to him that are more desirable than Major League Soccer.

[Unregistered]

While parts of your complaints may have merit, your discussion of the two Westside players undermines your argument. The Timbers didn't "miss" either.

de Vera was a fixture on the TA throughout his high school career. He chose to attend college rather than turn pro, and the Timbers chose not to maintain his homegrown status (I don't know what the limitations are on how many homegrowns they can carry). So when he graduated, he had to enter MLS through the draft and was selected by NYRB. Now, it is possible for an MLS team to keep a player's homegrown rights while they play college ball, as the Timbers did do with Foster Langsdorf (and Seattle did with Jordan Morris), but I don't know the limitations on how many homegrowns can be carried.

As far as Rubin goes--he's simply too good for MLS. End of story. He went to IMG academy--an elite residential academy in Florida, and miles better than Timbers Academy (especially a few years ago when he was still a youth). And he went directly to Europe after his youth career, and is now in Liga MX. I'm sure the Timbers would have loved to have kept him in the system, but he had far better options. Suggesting that the Timbers "missed" or ignored him his asinine. He's probably the best male player to ever come out of Oregon (among players older than 25, its either Hurtado or Barrett, both with lengthy MLS careers), his abilities were widely known in the local soccer community, and even as a youth had doors open to him that are more desirable than Major League Soccer.

Rubio has had a very rocky road to date, 4 clubs already, albeit not too flattering leagues , finding playing time and minor injuries have been a challenge. Hopefully Liga MX is a fresh start to better days. By no stretch of anyone's imagination on planet earth is he too good for MLS. That statement is beyond ignorant and asinine.

The best player in the Pros to come out of Oregon is not Rubio, he has a chance, but much is uncertain about his future. Time will tell and today it's simply not the case.

Sitting on the bench in 3 o 4 different obscure leagues in Europe was not the kickstart to a great career.

Viva Mexico?

[Unregistered]

Rubio has had a very rocky road to date, 4 clubs already, albeit not too flattering leagues , finding playing time and minor injuries have been a challenge. Hopefully Liga MX is a fresh start to better days. By no stretch of anyone's imagination on planet earth is he too good for MLS. That statement is beyond ignorant and asinine.

The best player in the Pros to come out of Oregon is not Rubio, he has a chance, but much is uncertain about his future. Time will tell and today it's simply not the case.

Sitting on the bench in 3 o 4 different obscure leagues in Europe was not the kickstart to a great career.

Viva Mexico?

Liga MX is still better than MLS, and he's already been capped more with the USMNT than anyone else from Oregon.

Yeah, his journey to Europe was a failure. (Though the Dutch Eredivisie is hardly an "obscure league", even if it isn't as strong as it once was--it's where Ajax plays, after all). Part of that was injury, part of that may have been that Europe--even the lower divisions--is fiercely competitive. Plus he plays a position (forward) the US does NOT have a good track record at producing.

My estimate of him as "best" is somewhat speculative, obviously, Both Hurtado and Barrett played college ball (Rubio did not), and if Rubio ends up like Danny Mwanga in a few years--playing in NASL or USL--then no, he won't be the best. But EH and CB were still in college at this point in their careers.

[Unregistered]

While parts of your complaints may have merit, your discussion of the two Westside players undermines your argument. The Timbers didn't "miss" either.

de Vera was a fixture on the TA throughout his high school career. He chose to attend college rather than turn pro, and the Timbers chose not to maintain his homegrown status (I don't know what the limitations are on how many homegrowns they can carry). So when he graduated, he had to enter MLS through the draft and was selected by NYRB. Now, it is possible for an MLS team to keep a player's homegrown rights while they play college ball, as the Timbers did do with Foster Langsdorf (and Seattle did with Jordan Morris), but I don't know the limitations on how many homegrowns can be carried.

As far as Rubin goes--he's simply too good for MLS. End of story. He went to IMG academy--an elite residential academy in Florida, and miles better than Timbers Academy (especially a few years ago when he was still a youth). And he went directly to Europe after his youth career, and is now in Liga MX. I'm sure the Timbers would have loved to have kept him in the system, but he had far better options. Suggesting that the Timbers "missed" or ignored him his asinine. He's probably the best male player to ever come out of Oregon (among players older than 25, its either Hurtado or Barrett, both with lengthy MLS careers), his abilities were widely known in the local soccer community, and even as a youth had doors open to him that are more desirable than Major League Soccer.

You can have unlimited homegrown players.

Imagine if PTFC created an environment that would have players choose their club. It would require building a fun learning environment and spending more money.

[Unregistered]

But is that true? Counting SW Washington, here's a list of the top professionals or internationals who played youth soccer in the state of Oregon (players who played here in college but grew up elsewhere, like Kasey Keller, are not listed). To be on the list, one must either have played in MLS or an equivalent (or better) foreign league, or have been capped by a senior international team. (There are two exceptions to that listed here). Only male players are listed. In general, any international teams, current or most recent MLS-or-better pro team, college (if applicable), and youth club(s) or high school, if known.
****

There are a few interesting gaps in the list. For players born prior to 1980 or so, the modern club scene didn't really exist. Some players with MLS appearances only played in the early days when the league really sucked; I still included them.

Basing my statement:

On an blog analyzing per capita production of players over I think a 5 year period that ended right before MLS came to Portland. In that era, Washington and Oregon rated really highly, but who knows if it was an anomaly and with small population states it only takes a couple to skew it.

Perception that we have not produced impactful pros since Academy came to town. Recognize it is relatively early.

One side note, I am not sure it was easier for an American to make the pros early in the MLS: only 10 MLS teams then v. 23 now. It looks like USL (today) v. USISL (then) is roughly the same number of teams, although if NASL is able to field a league again in 2018, then between USL and NASL there is also materially more opportunities today then there were then at the 2nd level. I haven't adjusted for population though (269 million folks lived in US in 96, v. 327 million today).

[Unregistered]

Basing my statement:

On an blog analyzing per capita production of players over I think a 5 year period that ended right before MLS came to Portland. In that era, Washington and Oregon rated really highly, but who knows if it was an anomaly and with small population states it only takes a couple to skew it.

Perception that we have not produced impactful pros since Academy came to town. Recognize it is relatively early.

One side note, I am not sure it was easier for an American to make the pros early in the MLS: only 10 MLS teams then v. 23 now. It looks like USL (today) v. USISL (then) is roughly the same number of teams, although if NASL is able to field a league again in 2018, then between USL and NASL there is also materially more opportunities today then there were then at the 2nd level. I haven't adjusted for population though (269 million folks lived in US in 96, v. 327 million today).

Data crunching aside, one need only look our own youth backyard, we had Regional & National level club teams between 1995 to 2010, a 15 year stretch with out any National DA til around 2008-09 Oregon was relevant in competition at a Regional & in quite a few cases the national level.

Why this drought since the turn of the decade of talented and prolific club teams?

Timbers Academy?
Too many new Clubs forming every week trying to make a buck?
Acronym driven soccer culture?
Weak Coaching?
Weaker Player talent?
Traffic Congestion?

Just a bad patch?

The trajectory and trend indicated ever better days ahead.

Can someone pinpoint it or is it all of the above and more?

[Unregistered]

Data crunching aside, one need only look our own youth backyard, we had Regional & National level club teams between 1995 to 2010, a 15 year stretch with out any National DA til around 2008-09 Oregon was relevant in competition at a Regional & in quite a few cases the national level.

Why this drought since the turn of the decade of talented and prolific club teams?

Timbers Academy?
Too many new Clubs forming every week trying to make a buck?
Acronym driven soccer culture?
Weak Coaching?
Weaker Player talent?
Traffic Congestion?

Just a bad patch?

The trajectory and trend indicated ever better days ahead.

Can someone pinpoint it or is it all of the above and more?

Dilution of talent pool, too many clubs , dilution of coaching talent, prohibitive cost of ECNL/ premier traveling teams.

[Unregistered]

An article on NYRB and some insight to their development philosophy. https://www.mlssoccer.com/post/2018/...development-us

Population is obviously a major factor. Clubs like NYRB, FC Dallas, LA Galaxy, and Atlanta United (?) are the top youth academies in the US. There is also a belief in developing young players, and putting them in the right environment to develop, and succeed. A clear vision how to integrate players coming up through the system exists.

Do the Timbers have this philosophy? If not, is it the coaching? Players? Culture?

There has long been criticism of the pay-to-play model in the US, does that have any impact here? Players in the Timbers DA pay very little, but were also brought up in the pay-to-play model prior to joining DA.

Population is a factor, but I would argue we're also behind some academies of similar, or even less population. Such as Salt Lake City, Kansas City, St.Louis, Columbus, and Raleigh(Durham triangle included). Also far behind a club like Crossfire Premier, who has to compete with the Sounders in their area.

Share constructive opinions in this discussion! Not looking for a bashing session.

[Unregistered]

Basing my statement:

On an blog analyzing per capita production of players over I think a 5 year period that ended right before MLS came to Portland. In that era, Washington and Oregon rated really highly, but who knows if it was an anomaly and with small population states it only takes a couple to skew it.

Perception that we have not produced impactful pros since Academy came to town. Recognize it is relatively early.

One side note, I am not sure it was easier for an American to make the pros early in the MLS: only 10 MLS teams then v. 23 now. It looks like USL (today) v. USISL (then) is roughly the same number of teams, although if NASL is able to field a league again in 2018, then between USL and NASL there is also materially more opportunities today then there were then at the 2nd level. I haven't adjusted for population though (269 million folks lived in US in 96, v. 327 million today).

There seem to be few players born in the early-mid 90s who have made an impact.

Since 1995, there are four local kids who have "made it" or are close to it--being drafted by MLS, signing homegrown contracts with the Timbers, or playing (Rubin) in a first-division league overseas. Another '98 to watch is Blake Bodily (a GREAT name for an athlete), who is currently playing for UW but is still firmly on the Timbers' radar. I'm not sure if there are any 99s that will make it; Adrian Villegas appears to be the best of the 00s, and I won't comment about younger classes (there's a kid from Mt. Angel who appears to be the best '03). But it's the goal of the TA to produce one first-team talent per year, and the pipeline appears to be approaching that rate of production.

[Unregistered]

There seem to be few players born in the early-mid 90s who have made an impact.

Since 1995, there are four local kids who have "made it" or are close to it--being drafted by MLS, signing homegrown contracts with the Timbers, or playing (Rubin) in a first-division league overseas. Another '98 to watch is Blake Bodily (a GREAT name for an athlete), who is currently playing for UW but is still firmly on the Timbers' radar. I'm not sure if there are any 99s that will make it; Adrian Villegas appears to be the best of the 00s, and I won't comment about younger classes (there's a kid from Mt. Angel who appears to be the best '03). But it's the goal of the TA to produce one first-team talent per year, and the pipeline appears to be approaching that rate of production.

Since birth year ‘91. I can’t say any Oregonians have ‘made it’, Rubio is on the cusp perhaps of making it, why do I say this, he has just approached 40 games in 4 different leagues, with a goal production of ‘1’.

You need to realize playing in the USL in the states doesn’t even pay enough monthly to cover a 1bdrm apartment. Also, unlike actual major sports in US they don’t give them a 6 million signing bonus and see if they can develop in the minor leagues. You basically are playing for the love of the sport with the tiny hope of advancing up the ladder.

Timbers Academy have produced squat—since 2012. Farfan doesn’t play much or hardly at all, in 2 seasons also outside defenders are a dime a dozen in the MLS. That’s it to date.

T2 products have little chance of becoming regulars in the MLS.

Timbers goal is to sign players that will contribute on the 1st team. It’s far easier to comb South America for journeyman pros then rely on their ass backwards youth academy methodology that produces kids who can’t even shine when shipped back to the HS level after a year or two in their DA. Jus sayin

[Unregistered]

Since birth year ‘91. I can’t say any Oregonians have ‘made it’, Rubio is on the cusp perhaps of making it, why do I say this, he has just approached 40 games in 4 different leagues, with a goal production of ‘1’.

You need to realize playing in the USL in the states doesn’t even pay enough monthly to cover a 1bdrm apartment. Also, unlike actual major sports in US they don’t give them a 6 million signing bonus and see if they can develop in the minor leagues. You basically are playing for the love of the sport with the tiny hope of advancing up the ladder.

Timbers Academy have produced squat—since 2012. Farfan doesn’t play much or hardly at all, in 2 seasons also outside defenders are a dime a dozen in the MLS. That’s it to date.

T2 products have little chance of becoming regulars in the MLS.

Timbers goal is to sign players that will contribute on the 1st team. It’s far easier to comb South America for journeyman pros then rely on their ass backwards youth academy methodology that produces kids who can’t even shine when shipped back to the HS level after a year or two in their DA. Jus sayin

Jesus, how salty are you in life. The bottom line is the Timbers Academy is the best option for local players. No other club is even close to providing the environment they do.