Westside, Rubio, and Training Compensation

[Slow Xavi]

Just saw this.

"No U.S. youth team has ever formally filed a complaint regarding training fees, according to a FIFA spokesman. One doing so would certainly be setting a precedent and would risk the ire of U.S. Soccer, which could move to have the team banned from participating in sanctioned leagues.

But the makings of a fight appear to be in place and it's not out of the question to think that a team looking to net a lot of money in training fees would challenge these exemptions at some point.

That groundbreaking team may be the Westside Timbers Soccer Club of Portland, Oregon."

[Unregistered]

What ?

The Westside Timbers have been fully compensated for this player. They were compensated through player fees that were paid by parents and fundraisers. This player may have not have paid the fees and was placed on scholarship by the club but that is their choice to take reduced revenue for the team or use the money from tournaments and sponsorships to pay for him.

The reason why no US youth club has ever asked for training fees is because they are tuition based soccer clubs and don't rely on training fees to survive.

In my opinion this was a low moment in US Youth soccer, and it originated right here in Oregon.

[Unregistered]

Does this only apply to scholarship players?

[Slow Xavi]

The Westside Timbers have been fully compensated for this player. They were compensated through player fees that were paid by parents and fundraisers. This player may have not have paid the fees and was placed on scholarship by the club but that is their choice to take reduced revenue for the team or use the money from tournaments and sponsorships to pay for him.

The reason why no US youth club has ever asked for training fees is because they are tuition based soccer clubs and don't rely on training fees to survive.

In my opinion this was a low moment in US Youth soccer, and it originated right here in Oregon.

There is much talk on this forum and elsewhere about bringing US up to international standards when it comes to player development; training compensation is a significant part of that equation elsewhere in the world. It gets out of the pay-to-play model and compensates clubs who develop players.

US Soccer has taken a very dim view of training compensation; arguably that has extended the pay-to-play model too long on the boys' side.

MLS is a very odd spot on this: some of their academies are frustrated, because foreign teams poach their youth players, and US Soccer will not seek compensation on their behalf; at the same time, MLS poaches from youth programs inside and outside the US (Jamaica for example is going after MLS teams who recently drafted Jamaican players).

Why shouldn't Westside have the right to get reimbursed as they would anywhere else in the world, for contributing to Rubio's development?

Does this only apply to scholarship players?

I think that is right; only applies if the player did pay to play at the club.

[Unregistered]

Wow

That is an amazing find, finally some real soccer journalism.

I wish the Timbers would go after this hard, they are well within their rights to demand this and moreover, this is at the heart of our youth development issues, the gentrification that comes with pay to play, the trophy mentality, etc.

I follow this stuff fairly closely and I was absolutely convinced that there had in fact been a judgement that prevented US Soccer from paying training fees, that was the company line anyway. Sound like all this scrutiny over the CBA and journalists who are not Sunil and Don's lapdogs, might just open the lid on this can of worms that is USSF, SUM and MLS,

[Slow Xavi]

****
I follow this stuff fairly closely and I was absolutely convinced that there had in fact been a judgement that prevented US Soccer from paying training fees, that was the company line anyway. Sound like all this scrutiny over the CBA and journalists who are not Sunil and Don's lapdogs, might just open the lid on this can of worms that is USSF, SUM and MLS,

I also had no idea about the real history of US Soccer's position . . . always thought is child labor law concerns (maybe ultimately it was why they were willing to stipulate, or maybe they just wanted out of the lawsuit):

Count II of that case resulted in a request for summary judgment from both sides on the issue of team compensation for out-of-contract players. The players alleged that such compensation hindered a player's market value. MLS said they wouldn't seek compensation in these cases, but weren't willing to put that in writing.
The judge denied both motions, but revealed in the footnotes: "The players had originally asserted this claim against the United States Soccer Federation, Inc. (the 'USSF'), as well, but USSF has since entered into a stipulation that it never has and never will pay nor request a transfer fee payment for an out-of-contract player. As a result, the players have withdrawn Count II as against the USSF."


One note - in this case, I think it is Westside the club, not the Portland Timbers, that are pursuing it.

[Unregistered]

There is much talk on this forum and elsewhere about bringing US up to international standards when it comes to player development; training compensation is a significant part of that equation elsewhere in the world. It gets out of the pay-to-play model and compensates clubs who develop players.

US Soccer has taken a very dim view of training compensation; arguably that has extended the pay-to-play model too long on the boys' side.

MLS is a very odd spot on this: some of their academies are frustrated, because foreign teams poach their youth players, and US Soccer will not seek compensation on their behalf; at the same time, MLS poaches from youth programs inside and outside the US (Jamaica for example is going after MLS teams who recently drafted Jamaican players).

Why shouldn't Westside have the right to get reimbursed as they would anywhere else in the world, for contributing to Rubio's development?



I think that is right; only applies if the player did pay to play at the club.

It always amazes me when people try to compare USA with "anywhere else in the world". USA is unique, trying to compare our system to any other system in the world is apples and oranges.

[Unregistered]

It always amazes me when people try to compare USA with "anywhere else in the world". USA is unique, trying to compare our system to any other system in the world is apples and oranges.

And that goes for everything, sports, healthcare, gas prices, work schedule, habits...... everything we do in this country is unique to the rest of the world.

[Unregistered]

It always amazes me when people try to compare USA with "anywhere else in the world". USA is unique, trying to compare our system to any other system in the world is apples and oranges.

True. But it's also pompous to believe that the way the US does things is better. As it relates to soccer, it might behoove the US to line things up with "anywhere else in the world" in order to compete. I agree with Klinsman in terms of changing the MLS calendar to align itself with league calendars around the globe. And as far as I'm concerned, Westside should be compensated.

[Unregistered]

That is an amazing find, finally some real soccer journalism.

I wish the Timbers would go after this hard, they are well within their rights to demand this and moreover, this is at the heart of our youth development issues, the gentrification that comes with pay to play, the trophy mentality, etc.

I follow this stuff fairly closely and I was absolutely convinced that there had in fact been a judgement that prevented US Soccer from paying training fees, that was the company line anyway. Sound like all this scrutiny over the CBA and journalists who are not Sunil and Don's lapdogs, might just open the lid on this can of worms that is USSF, SUM and MLS,

WST should not be entitled to any transfer fees from Rubio's new club.

Rubio should on his own give back to a club who has helped him become a professional soccer player.

[Unregistered]

It always amazes me when people try to compare USA with "anywhere else in the world". USA is unique, trying to compare our system to any other system in the world is apples and oranges.

It always amazes me when people buy this type of American Exceptionalism BS hook line and sinker.

[Unregistered]

It always amazes me when people buy this type of American Exceptionalism BS hook line and sinker.

It has nothing to do with Exceptionalism.... It has everything to do with our monetary and taxing system, it's not the same as the rest of the world, it makes comparing compensation the way other clubs in the world to the way our clubs are different. Apples and Oranges. Just like when idiots here try to say our gasoline is wayyy cheaper than in Europe. Well that's because in Europe they collect alot more taxes out of gasoline than we do here. Here we pay those taxes through different sources, were still paying them, just no the same as they do in Europe. So when you here idiots trying to compare the price of gas in Europe to the price of gas in USA, they are being ignorant fools. You should run away from these types of people as they know not what they speak. Same goes for sports funding and just about everything else. It's pretty hard to compare USA to the rest of the world. It's just different. Has nothing to do with exceptionalism.

[Unregistered]

WST should not be entitled to any transfer fees from Rubio's new club.

Rubio should on his own give back to a club who has helped him become a professional soccer player.

This is really gray. Westside is a pay to play club just like most youth clubs, the problem however was if Rubio was scholar shipped. I still believe it should be treated as pay to play and thus no transfer fee.

The only way this should be different is if at the time the scholar ship was awarded there was conversation about signing rights etc…

Most youth clubs tout how they are doing something good for the community by offering scholarships. If these represent chits on those players then clubs need to be honest about it.

[Unregistered]

If player compensation fees applied here as in europe, the following could happen.

1. Clubs would be more focused on development instead of recruitment/result/numbers standard that it Is now. Imagine if clubs didn't get paid until the player was successful rather than paid regardless if they are successful or not like it is now.

2. More free to play opportunities.

3. Development standard would be much better.

4. Participation in Large costing leagues and overblown budgets would be reduced significantly.

5. bad practices such as overblown rosters to keep costs down etc wouldn't exist as development would be thè top priority..

6. Players would be sold after specific ages to high paying professional clubs.

7. The numbers of premier soccer clubs would be drastically cut. Can't compete with clubs who make the best players rather than the best or most winning team.

8. American soccer mom and crazy dad involvement would be gone. Again it wold be about development, not pleasing idiot parents who care about how winning feels to them instead of if it actually matters in their kids development.

[Unregistered]

If player compensation fees applied here as in europe, the following could happen.

1. Clubs would be more focused on development instead of recruitment/result/numbers standard that it Is now. Imagine if clubs didn't get paid until the player was successful rather than paid regardless if they are successful or not like it is now.

2. More free to play opportunities.

3. Development standard would be much better.

4. Participation in Large costing leagues and overblown budgets would be reduced significantly.

5. bad practices such as overblown rosters to keep costs down etc wouldn't exist as development would be thè top priority..

6. Players would be sold after specific ages to high paying professional clubs.

7. The numbers of premier soccer clubs would be drastically cut. Can't compete with clubs who make the best players rather than the best or most winning team.

8. American soccer mom and crazy dad involvement would be gone. Again it wold be about development, not pleasing idiot parents who care about how winning feels to them instead of if it actually matters in their kids development.

Great points!👊