When to be obnoxious

[Cujo]

I have some experience watching a U14 boys Columbus Day Tournament for town teams.

The officials weren't great but they weren't BAD either. Hearing some parents yell at the ref tends to ruin my enjoyment of the game for me and doesn't set a good example for my 8 year old son watching with me - let alone the other kids in the stands.

Well, I think that the reason there is something like a 50% drop out rate for young refs has to be explained by the abuse they take. When you are older you either tune them out or don't care what the people on the sidelines say. Of course you take abuse from the players but it is their game so it is understandable that they get frustrated if they disagree with your call. The fans are another story - I have seen young refs get absolutely eviscerated by fans and it is really really sad. I recently started reffing and basically can get as many games as I want because the retention rates are so low.

The drop out rate of refs can not be blamed upon abuse solely. Sure, it's a convenient way to help institute a zero tolerance policy so now we can play soccer in a commando state. Part of the problem has to do with proper training and a knowledge of the game beyond their limited experience. Giving a 16 year old kid the charge of a competitive game with no ideas that he'll have to actually manage the game but then to also give him the authority to red card any one who says anything gives him a holier than thou attitude ( or can ). Refs drop out also because they realize this is not for them. Or they do it temporarily to earn some money. Or they quit because they get a grl friend. Or a car. Or a better job. Or because school work gets harder. or because they don't feel like it any more. Or because their parents get tired of driving them to games and paying for the gas and then waiting 2-3 hours while they ref to stay with them to make sure they are okay. There are many reasons why young refs leave. Do not lay it solely on abuse. And I do agree there is too much abuse but the best way to deal with that is education...not a magic red card wand called the zero tolerance policy

Of course there are other reasons but I believe that there was a survey that said that it was one of the primary factors. That being said any adult that screams at a teenage CR or linesman is a bully and an idiot. I don't need a ZT policy or a survey to tell me that. Go to any tournament and keep your ears open - you will hear some of the most brutal things being said to young officials. I went to Nashua for 8 consecutive years Memorial day and Columbus day and saw and heard enough to write a book.

[beentheredonethat]

The drop out rate of refs can not be blamed upon abuse solely. Sure, it's a convenient way to help institute a zero tolerance policy so now we can play soccer in a commando state. Part of the problem has to do with proper training and a knowledge of the game beyond their limited experience. Giving a 16 year old kid the charge of a competitive game with no ideas that he'll have to actually manage the game but then to also give him the authority to red card any one who says anything gives him a holier than thou attitude ( or can ). Refs drop out also because they realize this is not for them. Or they do it temporarily to earn some money. Or they quit because they get a grl friend. Or a car. Or a better job. Or because school work gets harder. or because they don't feel like it any more. Or because their parents get tired of driving them to games and paying for the gas and then waiting 2-3 hours while they ref to stay with them to make sure they are okay. There are many reasons why young refs leave. Do not lay it solely on abuse. And I do agree there is too much abuse but the best way to deal with that is education...not a magic red card wand called the zero tolerance policy

Blaming the lack of quality refs on abuse is not the answer. I teach 16 year old kids about work and careers. Let me tell you most kids start off looking at a job like reffing as simply a better alternative to working at McDonalds or some store in the mall. While the reasons why a kid quits being a ref are as varied as why any adult would quit a part time job, I will tell you most kids come to realize that the more they work the more they get paid and see that they can make more money working a different job. It's one of those first money or fun decisions they come across. The kids that continue reffing are either super motivated who work multiple part time jobs or have a personal situation where money is not an issue.

FSM .. Are you telling me nobody at one of your school's football games ever criticized a refs call or jeered the opposition? I've sat in Cameron during a basketball game. Being crazy was half the fun. When is it OK to boo an official or cheer wildly for your team?

[Cujo]

The drop out rate of refs can not be blamed upon abuse solely. Sure, it's a convenient way to help institute a zero tolerance policy so now we can play soccer in a commando state. Part of the problem has to do with proper training and a knowledge of the game beyond their limited experience. Giving a 16 year old kid the charge of a competitive game with no ideas that he'll have to actually manage the game but then to also give him the authority to red card any one who says anything gives him a holier than thou attitude ( or can ). Refs drop out also because they realize this is not for them. Or they do it temporarily to earn some money. Or they quit because they get a grl friend. Or a car. Or a better job. Or because school work gets harder. or because they don't feel like it any more. Or because their parents get tired of driving them to games and paying for the gas and then waiting 2-3 hours while they ref to stay with them to make sure they are okay. There are many reasons why young refs leave. Do not lay it solely on abuse. And I do agree there is too much abuse but the best way to deal with that is education...not a magic red card wand called the zero tolerance policy

Blaming the lack of quality refs on abuse is not the answer. I teach 16 year old kids about work and careers. Let me tell you most kids start off looking at a job like reffing as simply a better alternative to working at McDonalds or some store in the mall. While the reasons why a kid quits being a ref are as varied as why any adult would quit a part time job, I will tell you most kids come to realize that the more they work the more they get paid and see that they can make more money working a different job. It's one of those first money or fun decisions they come across. The kids that continue reffing are either super motivated who work multiple part time jobs or have a personal situation where money is not an issue.

FSM .. Are you telling me nobody at one of your school's football games ever criticized a refs call or jeered the opposition? I've sat in Cameron during a basketball game. Being crazy was half the fun. When is it OK to boo an official or cheer wildly for your team?

So you are saying that kids would rather work for $8 an hour at MacDonalds than get $20+ for a one hour game??? I don't buy that. Yelling at teenage refs is a sign of an immature, needy adult.

[beentheredonethat]

The minimum work shift is 4 hours so they actually make more money at McDonalds. Plus they typically work more than 4 hours. How many games does a typical 16 year old ref get a week. Mine gets 1-2.

The minimum work shift is 4 hours so they actually make more money at McDonalds. Plus they typically work more than 4 hours. How many games does a typical 16 year old ref get a week. Mine gets 1-2.

Any 16 year old refs I know are dedicted school/club soccer players. Shift work at McDonald in addition to school work and other responsibilites just ain't fitting in their schedule. Reffing on the other hand can be fairly flexible - particularly knowing how desparate ref assignors can get during busy soccer seaon.

The drop out rate of refs can not be blamed upon abuse solely. Sure, it's a convenient way to help institute a zero tolerance policy so now we can play soccer in a commando state. Part of the problem has to do with proper training and a knowledge of the game beyond their limited experience. Giving a 16 year old kid the charge of a competitive game with no ideas that he'll have to actually manage the game but then to also give him the authority to red card any one who says anything gives him a holier than thou attitude ( or can ). Refs drop out also because they realize this is not for them. Or they do it temporarily to earn some money. Or they quit because they get a grl friend. Or a car. Or a better job. Or because school work gets harder. or because they don't feel like it any more. Or because their parents get tired of driving them to games and paying for the gas and then waiting 2-3 hours while they ref to stay with them to make sure they are okay. There are many reasons why young refs leave. Do not lay it solely on abuse. And I do agree there is too much abuse but the best way to deal with that is education...not a magic red card wand called the zero tolerance policy

Blaming the lack of quality refs on abuse is not the answer. I teach 16 year old kids about work and careers. Let me tell you most kids start off looking at a job like reffing as simply a better alternative to working at McDonalds or some store in the mall. While the reasons why a kid quits being a ref are as varied as why any adult would quit a part time job, I will tell you most kids come to realize that the more they work the more they get paid and see that they can make more money working a different job. It's one of those first money or fun decisions they come across. The kids that continue reffing are either super motivated who work multiple part time jobs or have a personal situation where money is not an issue.

FSM .. Are you telling me nobody at one of your school's football games ever criticized a refs call or jeered the opposition? I've sat in Cameron during a basketball game. Being crazy was half the fun. When is it OK to boo an official or cheer wildly for your team?

So you are saying that kids would rather work for $8 an hour at MacDonalds than get $20+ for a one hour game??? I don't buy that. Yelling at teenage refs is a sign of an immature, needy adult.

If a teenaged kid is working a MAPLE game, then they are put in an impossible situation because they are not experienced enough to handle it.

If a teen ref is yelled at during a town game, most town rec programs have specific guidelines about that, and they just need to be enforced. I just don't see many parents yelling at a kid who is a member of their own community.

The drop out rate of refs can not be blamed upon abuse solely. Sure, it's a convenient way to help institute a zero tolerance policy so now we can play soccer in a commando state. Part of the problem has to do with proper training and a knowledge of the game beyond their limited experience. Giving a 16 year old kid the charge of a competitive game with no ideas that he'll have to actually manage the game but then to also give him the authority to red card any one who says anything gives him a holier than thou attitude ( or can ). Refs drop out also because they realize this is not for them. Or they do it temporarily to earn some money. Or they quit because they get a grl friend. Or a car. Or a better job. Or because school work gets harder. or because they don't feel like it any more. Or because their parents get tired of driving them to games and paying for the gas and then waiting 2-3 hours while they ref to stay with them to make sure they are okay. There are many reasons why young refs leave. Do not lay it solely on abuse. And I do agree there is too much abuse but the best way to deal with that is education...not a magic red card wand called the zero tolerance policy

Blaming the lack of quality refs on abuse is not the answer. I teach 16 year old kids about work and careers. Let me tell you most kids start off looking at a job like reffing as simply a better alternative to working at McDonalds or some store in the mall. While the reasons why a kid quits being a ref are as varied as why any adult would quit a part time job, I will tell you most kids come to realize that the more they work the more they get paid and see that they can make more money working a different job. It's one of those first money or fun decisions they come across. The kids that continue reffing are either super motivated who work multiple part time jobs or have a personal situation where money is not an issue.

FSM .. Are you telling me nobody at one of your school's football games ever criticized a refs call or jeered the opposition? I've sat in Cameron during a basketball game. Being crazy was half the fun. When is it OK to boo an official or cheer wildly for your team?

So you are saying that kids would rather work for $8 an hour at MacDonalds than get $20+ for a one hour game??? I don't buy that. Yelling at teenage refs is a sign of an immature, needy adult.

If a teenaged kid is working a MAPLE game, then they are put in an impossible situation because they are not experienced enough to handle it.

If a teen ref is yelled at during a town game, most town rec programs have specific guidelines about that, and they just need to be enforced. I just don't see many parents yelling at a kid who is a member of their own community.

Re: When to be obnoxious

I was at a high school game the other day in which the official was either terribly biased or just plain terrible. After the fourth beyond blatant offsides resulted in a goal (and the eventual margin of victory) I yelled at the ref from the side lines. This guy was so bad a spectator from the other team actually walked over to me offer his condolences. That said, I am sure you can imagine the reaction I got from the other parents around me.

Why is it now that when we see something that is bad in a sporting event we are expected to clap politely and keep out mouths shut? Why are officials who are getting paid to perform a job beyond reproach? Since when is it bad to be competitive or worse yet a fan? Why is wrong to show passionate support for your team? Having been involved in sports my whole life I can tell you that this is not how it used to be.

If it was really as bad as you say it was, the coaches need to mention it to league officials. If you feel so strongly about the situation, you should contact the league officials yourself. I don't think being obnoxious is going to improve the situation and, in most cases, makes the situation worse.

If the play of the home team is ever as poor as the officiating, is the same behavior aimed toward the coaches acceptable? I don't think so.

If a teenaged kid is working a MAPLE game, then they are put in an impossible situation because they are not experienced enough to handle it.

If a teen ref is yelled at during a town game, most town rec programs have specific guidelines about that, and they just need to be enforced. I just don't see many parents yelling at a kid who is a member of their own community.

son STARTED refereeing but quit because of parents and coaches screaming (back some 8 years ago)
My 16 year old daughter works town games ages up through u15 and MAPLE games. the early sunday morning maples as the sole ref. sunday afternoons as possibly a ref for younger ages, linesman for up to as old as maple gets. does a great job.

as opposed to son's approach, daughter gets a laugh out of all of those screaming from the crowd. for her, it's funny to see adults acting like idiots on the sideline of a kids game. always has stories to tell about the mom/dad screaming at the kids to do EXACTLY the wrong thing or at the ref to call/not call an infraction real or imagined that no one on the field except the yelling parent saw.

truth is that if it were me, some of the things that she considers to be a hoot would be a trip to the old parking lot for the miscreant, but then different approaches for different people.

[Cujo]

If a teenaged kid is working a MAPLE game, then they are put in an impossible situation because they are not experienced enough to handle it.

If a teen ref is yelled at during a town game, most town rec programs have specific guidelines about that, and they just need to be enforced. I just don't see many parents yelling at a kid who is a member of their own community.

son STARTED refereeing but quit because of parents and coaches screaming (back some 8 years ago)
My 16 year old daughter works town games ages up through u15 and MAPLE games. the early sunday morning maples as the sole ref. sunday afternoons as possibly a ref for younger ages, linesman for up to as old as maple gets. does a great job.

as opposed to son's approach, daughter gets a laugh out of all of those screaming from the crowd. for her, it's funny to see adults acting like idiots on the sideline of a kids game. always has stories to tell about the mom/dad screaming at the kids to do EXACTLY the wrong thing or at the ref to call/not call an infraction real or imagined that no one on the field except the yelling parent saw.

truth is that if it were me, some of the things that she considers to be a hoot would be a trip to the old parking lot for the miscreant, but then different approaches for different people.

I think every person has a different level of sensitivity. I know adults who cannot handle being yelled at and walk away from officiating. As for myself - it does not bother me one bit. It goes in one ear and out the other. Kids are the same way - some don't want to deal with the abuse but others like your daughter tune it out or laugh it off. We have a culture of rudeness and disrespect that is becoming entrenched in this country. The next time you hear someone being obnoxious on the sidelines take charge of the situation yourself and ask the person to calm down. Just make sure they are smaller than you and not on steroids.......... Too many people think it is only the responsibility of refs and coaches to keep things under control. It takes a village to raise an idiot.

[beentheredonethat]

Any 16 year old refs I know are dedicted school/club soccer players. Shift work at McDonald in addition to school work and other responsibilites just ain't fitting in their schedule. Reffing on the other hand can be fairly flexible - particularly knowing how desparate ref assignors can get during busy soccer seaon.

It is not all that uncommon for kids in my school to hold down a part time job, play a sport and do their school work. In fact we had to reschedule a tournament game this past weekend because it conflicted with too many work schedules.

Are you speaking to a HS Tournament Game? can't imagine in fact I know they wouldn't change a schedule for anything short of weather. Curious what type of tournamnet was rescheduled do to work????

[FFC]

My 16 year old daughter works town games ages up through u15 and MAPLE games. the early sunday morning maples as the sole ref. sunday afternoons as possibly a ref for younger ages, linesman for up to as old as maple gets. does a great job.

Are you the father/daughter pair of refs working side-by-side fields at some U10 games in Devens? Thought it was really sweet when I saw a young female ref talking with an older male ref at half-time and as he walked away she said, "bye, dad." :)

[beentheredonethat]

Are you speaking to a HS Tournament Game? can't imagine in fact I know they wouldn't change a schedule for anything short of weather. Curious what type of tournamnet was rescheduled do to work????

Yes. Game Saturday was cancelled because of weather. The next date was Sunday but most of our kids had swapped their work schedules to Sunday so the game was moved to Monday. May not be the official reason but that is what happened

That can't be the reason. MIAA wuold not reschedule any game because kids had to work...They barely change to acomodate the SAT's. You really should check that out because if it is true there will a lot of other schools protesting. Just make sure you have your facts and go see the MIAA rules. They did not and would not change a schedule because kids had to work.