Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

multiple "Premier" and "Elite" leagues

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    multiple "Premier" and "Elite" leagues

    I am old enough to remember the days when there was essentially a single platform against which all teams measured their relative success. Those were the days when the top flights of regional level tournaments could be assured that all of the most competitive teams from said region would be represented and to win really meant something. At the end of the year there was pretty close to a true national champion crowned. The best players sought out the best teams which were often coached by the best coaches and national play came into being for the best teams at a few national level tournaments and national chanpionships.

    Then along cam the DA. This league was sanctioned by the USSF and there were specific rules to be followed. It was championed as the venue for advancement both to the professional ranks and for college recruitment for the very best male players. It was to serve as a magnet for the best male players in a 3 hour radious so that all of the top talent would be concentrated into the "best" training environment managed by clubs with oversight by the USSF. The vast majority were not and still are not free and in fact some of the highest club fees were charged to the families of the DA role and bench players. The best players were(are) free or significantly discounted to be subsidized by lesser boys and all girls programming.

    The inevitable happened. The parents of the lesser players drank the koolaide: next year or subsequently with their superior development opportunities their little Pele would make a DA (pre DA) team. The clubs fed on we parents' universal fear that we might not be providing our little boy the best opportunity to achieve his potential unless we got him into a DA club- C team or not- and we were willing to pay the price.

    The realization that the same fear could be used by clubs to increase girls' programming, birthed the ECNL. The clubs realized that those clubs with DA status were expanding (read$) at atronomical rates. With this came bigger salaries for the DOC (owners). Even without USSF sanctioning, the clubs realized that if they could get key girl's clubs to jump on board they could get enough momentum to incite the universal fear (as described above) and once incited that fear would translate into dollars. When PDA jumped on board, if they were not the original masterminds, success was pretty much sealed.

    Not to be outdone the DA and ECNL excluded clubs turned to the easy administration of US club soccer and EDP, NPL, NYCPL and all the other "elite" and "premier" leagues were born to compete with the existing USYSA (with whom were historically difficult to deal) programming. Because they don't often play each other given their multiple organizations and leagues, one of the hottest topics on the board is which league or team provides a player the better opportuntity to achieve his/her highest success. Without direct competition we can't definitively know who the best 10 or so teams are in a region. The true rank order of teams within any age group is very unclear and debates rage.

    An end result (and there are several) of this situation of muddy team status of individual teams is that more parents can claim that their children are on elite and premier teams and by extension their children are also special. Parents arguing over which teams and which leagues are better for their children's development exposure and let's face it future success results in the increase, I would guess 3-4 times as many, teams and clubs claiming "elite" and "premier" stautes and very importantly, no consolidated way for anyone to prove them wrong. This results in dilution of competition as there is no clear destination for the best kids in many instances excluding MLS DA programming. The clubs are happy to fuel the debate and keep their "elite" staus with its bank roll possibilities.

    The diluted competition results in poorer development because the youngsters are not able to consistently test themselves against like competitors. Further there is more difficulty identifying the best trainers and the best situation for talented youngster. Overall the dilutional effect of all of these "elite" and "Premier" leagues is resulting in 3 things: Lesser competition and lesser development for our children, increased difficulty in identifying the best trainers and coaches for our children and increased income for the clubs.
    Who is the winner?

    #2
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

    An end result (and there are several) of this situation of muddy team status of individual teams is that more parents can claim that their children are on elite and premier teams and by extension their children are also special.
    And why is that so enraging....for parents to overestimate on their kids being "special"??? Exactly how does that make YOUR life more miserable?

    Comment


      #3
      To the OP, times change.

      You love the old days, post constantly about it, but offer no proof that it was better then. Just your musings, like some old-timer sitting on the porch drinking his lemonade on a hot summer day. You are a broken record that no one can seem to figure out how to remove from the turntable.

      Options are good. No one is forced to play club soccer. No one is forced to travel. If a parent can not properly gauge their child's talent level and figure out where they best suited to be trained and play, then they probably wouldn't have been able to do so back in your day either.

      Like or not, OP, many a talented kid was shut out of the equation back in the one-model days. So yeah, to your point, who is the winner?

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        I am old enough to remember the days when there was essentially a single platform against which all teams measured their relative success. Those were the days when the top flights of regional level tournaments could be assured that all of the most competitive teams from said region would be represented and to win really meant something. At the end of the year there was pretty close to a true national champion crowned. The best players sought out the best teams which were often coached by the best coaches and national play came into being for the best teams at a few national level tournaments and national chanpionships.

        Then along cam the DA. This league was sanctioned by the USSF and there were specific rules to be followed. It was championed as the venue for advancement both to the professional ranks and for college recruitment for the very best male players. It was to serve as a magnet for the best male players in a 3 hour radious so that all of the top talent would be concentrated into the "best" training environment managed by clubs with oversight by the USSF. The vast majority were not and still are not free and in fact some of the highest club fees were charged to the families of the DA role and bench players. The best players were(are) free or significantly discounted to be subsidized by lesser boys and all girls programming.

        The inevitable happened. The parents of the lesser players drank the koolaide: next year or subsequently with their superior development opportunities their little Pele would make a DA (pre DA) team. The clubs fed on we parents' universal fear that we might not be providing our little boy the best opportunity to achieve his potential unless we got him into a DA club- C team or not- and we were willing to pay the price.

        The realization that the same fear could be used by clubs to increase girls' programming, birthed the ECNL. The clubs realized that those clubs with DA status were expanding (read$) at atronomical rates. With this came bigger salaries for the DOC (owners). Even without USSF sanctioning, the clubs realized that if they could get key girl's clubs to jump on board they could get enough momentum to incite the universal fear (as described above) and once incited that fear would translate into dollars. When PDA jumped on board, if they were not the original masterminds, success was pretty much sealed.

        Not to be outdone the DA and ECNL excluded clubs turned to the easy administration of US club soccer and EDP, NPL, NYCPL and all the other "elite" and "premier" leagues were born to compete with the existing USYSA (with whom were historically difficult to deal) programming. Because they don't often play each other given their multiple organizations and leagues, one of the hottest topics on the board is which league or team provides a player the better opportuntity to achieve his/her highest success. Without direct competition we can't definitively know who the best 10 or so teams are in a region. The true rank order of teams within any age group is very unclear and debates rage.

        An end result (and there are several) of this situation of muddy team status of individual teams is that more parents can claim that their children are on elite and premier teams and by extension their children are also special. Parents arguing over which teams and which leagues are better for their children's development exposure and let's face it future success results in the increase, I would guess 3-4 times as many, teams and clubs claiming "elite" and "premier" stautes and very importantly, no consolidated way for anyone to prove them wrong. This results in dilution of competition as there is no clear destination for the best kids in many instances excluding MLS DA programming. The clubs are happy to fuel the debate and keep their "elite" staus with its bank roll possibilities.

        The diluted competition results in poorer development because the youngsters are not able to consistently test themselves against like competitors. Further there is more difficulty identifying the best trainers and the best situation for talented youngster. Overall the dilutional effect of all of these "elite" and "Premier" leagues is resulting in 3 things: Lesser competition and lesser development for our children, increased difficulty in identifying the best trainers and coaches for our children and increased income for the clubs.
        Who is the winner?
        Easy answer: almost EVERYONE is winning.

        1) There are plenty of very good teams with good training and competitive environments, so good players can get adequate development.

        2) The clubs can sell their product, and exploit the fact that today's families want their kids on "elite" teams.

        3) More parents can be satisfied that their kids are playing top level soccer - for whatever reasons that this may be important to them.

        Who may NOT be winning?

        1) A small handful of super talented kids who may have potential to play at an NT level who may not be getting enough consistently strong competition (maybe 1-2 players in any one age group). Therefore, 99.99% of us on TS don't fall into this category.

        2) Families that believe that they're raising a D1 prospect because he/she is a starter on a "top" team, and may be spending large amounts of money chasing an unrealistic dream. I don't know how many families would fall into this category, but it's the most unfortunate outcome of the current environment (even if those involved are perfectly happy while the chase is on). These folks may feel pretty bitter when the journey ends and they feel that they've been sold a bill of goods.

        3) The parents of the truly talented, NT level players who can't stand having other parents (improperly) view their own children as peers of these superstars. To these folks, all the frauds MUST be exposed so that all can properly worship at the feet of their studly kid. I think the OP fits into this category.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Easy answer: almost EVERYONE is winning.

          1) There are plenty of very good teams with good training and competitive environments, so good players can get adequate development.

          2) The clubs can sell their product, and exploit the fact that today's families want their kids on "elite" teams.

          3) More parents can be satisfied that their kids are playing top level soccer - for whatever reasons that this may be important to them.

          Who may NOT be winning?

          1) A small handful of super talented kids who may have potential to play at an NT level who may not be getting enough consistently strong competition (maybe 1-2 players in any one age group). Therefore, 99.99% of us on TS don't fall into this category.

          2) Families that believe that they're raising a D1 prospect because he/she is a starter on a "top" team, and may be spending large amounts of money chasing an unrealistic dream. I don't know how many families would fall into this category, but it's the most unfortunate outcome of the current environment (even if those involved are perfectly happy while the chase is on). These folks may feel pretty bitter when the journey ends and they feel that they've been sold a bill of goods.

          3) The parents of the truly talented, NT level players who can't stand having other parents (improperly) view their own children as peers of these superstars. To these folks, all the frauds MUST be exposed so that all can properly worship at the feet of their studly kid. I think the OP fits into this category.
          You nailed it with #3 just above. And the number of those folks is tiny because the overwhelming majority of parents of NT level/top D1 level players couldn't care less about what others are doing or not doing and/or are incredibly gracious about their fortunate circumstances and the least likely to want to rub salt in the eyes of others.

          I'm curious about how many truly fall into the category of your #2 above. We hear a ton about this allegedly tragic and traumatic result but without any real data to suggest that it happens with any frequency. If it is really true that club coaches of the most elite teams are promising D1 when they know kids don't have a realistic shot then those coaches should be exposed, but I doubt even the most notorious club bashers can produce the good on this point. I personally have seen plenty of parents of 12, 13, and maybe 14 year olds talking about how they think their kid is going to play soccer at Duke, but then by the time their kid is 16 or 17 and is fighting for play time on just the high school varsity those dreams usually have vanished and you hear them talking about hoping their kid will get into Roger Williams or Salve or Westfield just as a student and much less a soccer player.

          Comment


            #6
            The soccer training and education in this country has definitely improved in my lifetime. We, as a country, are producing more & better players. We are discovering more immigrant talent at a national level. However, there remains two basic constants that are motivating factors in all life: greed and fear.

            Fear that little Landon or Mia will get "left behind." Fear that if they are left behind they will not get into their "school of choice" or get a "full ride". Fear that they won't make varsity as a freshman or won't make a DAP team. Fear that they are not getting "the right coaching" , the "best training", the "winningest club", the "premier "experience. I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it , people like me when I give them my money.

            The soccer industry recognizes this fear and has grown as a result. DA, ECNL, REGION 1, ODP, MAPLE, NEP, MASC, TOWN, etc. are all around to vacuum up your dollars. I would like to use this post to announce the latest and greatest soccer club around: Phinea$ Taylor B. $occer Academy. And, we prefer the more politically correct term " lollipops" because "sucker" is so gauche, don't you think?

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              The soccer training and education in this country has definitely improved in my lifetime. We, as a country, are producing more & better players. We are discovering more immigrant talent at a national level. However, there remains two basic constants that are motivating factors in all life: greed and fear.

              Fear that little Landon or Mia will get "left behind." Fear that if they are left behind they will not get into their "school of choice" or get a "full ride". Fear that they won't make varsity as a freshman or won't make a DAP team. Fear that they are not getting "the right coaching" , the "best training", the "winningest club", the "premier "experience. I'm good enough, I'm smart enough, and doggone it , people like me when I give them my money.

              The soccer industry recognizes this fear and has grown as a result. DA, ECNL, REGION 1, ODP, MAPLE, NEP, MASC, TOWN, etc. are all around to vacuum up your dollars. I would like to use this post to announce the latest and greatest soccer club around: Phinea$ Taylor B. $occer Academy. And, we prefer the more politically correct term " lollipops" because "sucker" is so gauche, don't you think?
              Do you expect all to provide these opportunities and training for no cost? Or would you prefer the taxpayer to pick up the tab perhaps?

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Do you expect all to provide these opportunities and training for no cost? Or would you prefer the taxpayer to pick up the tab perhaps?
                No and no.

                Answer me this.

                Why has the cost to participate in youth sports risen so much in the US over the past 50 years?

                How much does it cost to train a youth soccer player in England, Germany, Spain, Italy, Brazil or Argentina?

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  No and no.

                  Answer me this.

                  Why has the cost to participate in youth sports risen so much in the US over the past 50 years?

                  How much does it cost to train a youth soccer player in England, Germany, Spain, Italy, Brazil or Argentina?
                  Americans are, in general, of below average intelligence.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    No and no.

                    Answer me this.

                    Why has the cost to participate in youth sports risen so much in the US over the past 50 years?

                    How much does it cost to train a youth soccer player in England, Germany, Spain, Italy, Brazil or Argentina?
                    What point are you trying to make?

                    Why has the cost of college risen so much over the past 50 years?

                    Why do people send their kids to prep schools costing 50K+ a year, spending more BEFORE college than most of us will spend on college itself, and then have the balls to talk about how they are traumatized by others spending money on club soccer?

                    How about private training? Is that free???

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      No and no.

                      Answer me this.

                      Why has the cost to participate in youth sports risen so much in the US over the past 50 years?

                      How much does it cost to train a youth soccer player in England, Germany, Spain, Italy, Brazil or Argentina?

                      Easy answer. Market forces. There is very high demand for youth sports that might increase future opportunities to those that participate. Therefore, significant $'s are available to pay for these activities.

                      I don't care what it costs to train a soccer player elsewhere. I live here. My kid plays soccer better than most kids and I can afford to pay the fees that the club currently charges.

                      I'm sure that you'll tell me that I'm making a huge, costly mistake. It's none of your business.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        First to the OP, you are correct in regard to how products are marketed, and this applies to all products from foods to schools. They are marketed and provided in such a way to entice, trap, and retain. There is a purposeful forced addiction that is included in every marketing tool to keep your money coming in. This is why companies pay large amounts of money for ad-agencies and also why food companies provide additives to their products to keep you 'hooked'. There is no doubt that the buyer eventually becomes hooked and continues to pay.

                        Club soccer is the 'private school' of education. Higher leagues (colleges/pros) absolutely look to club soccer for recruiting. High school games provides a percentage of viewing but the vast majority of it comes from club play. More so, if you look at most competitive colleges (D1,2,or 3) more than 90% (or even > 98%) of the rosters are filled with club soccer players. When I was young I played at a top DIII school but never played club soccer. Today is incredibly different.

                        Club soccer has created its own necessity and has, like any 'educational product' continued to re-invent its marketing to bring more and more people and money in. Premier, Elite, and Championship divisions are all labels to make you feel great about the team that your child is on. I can't tell you how many times I heard an MPS parent tell me that their child was on the Elite team, however, it was the Elite-select but not the Elite-Bulldog team. MPS, Stars, NEFC have so many levels of teams in so many different leagues that it keeps the parents heads spinning. Clubs do this to build their own business model, as well as meet the increasing costs of fields, coaching, training, tournaments, etc etc etc. This is no different than any other industry including your box of cereal in the morning. Although no one is openly 'forced' into doing this, we have accepted the reality and either choose to play the game or not. If the latter, then your child will not have the same opportunity to play higher level soccer. This has become a fact.

                        With all that said, I wholly agree with other posters, in that you should look at your child and in the mirror and figure out what the end-point is. At some point you need to be able to determine whether or not your kid 'has it' (regardless of the activity) and figure out whether or not the time that is spent is worth it. One gauge is whether or not your kid is invested. If they are ready to play, and even bouncing off the walls and wanting to get on to some surface to move a ball around then it is likely that they are really into it.

                        Be honest with yourself and your child. After all, money can be replaced, but time cannot.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          big clubs just want more and more money and parents are suckers

                          so many terrible players playing on b and c teams of these clubs -

                          people at these clubs making a living from this - crazy only in america

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Easy answer. Market forces. There is very high demand for youth sports that might increase future opportunities to those that participate. Therefore, significant $'s are available to pay for these activities.

                            I don't care what it costs to train a soccer player elsewhere. I live here. My kid plays soccer better than most kids and I can afford to pay the fees that the club currently charges.

                            I'm sure that you'll tell me that I'm making a huge, costly mistake. It's none of your business.
                            I agree with you. Not sure if my kid is any better than most but he is doing okay. He has made many great choices specifically in regards to his friends and his body. Drugs and alcohol take a back seat to training. His friends share those choices. I feel that he is on the right track. Rather than bored and in trouble he spends much of his spare time training and off the streets. He does participate in other activities but you won't find him wondering the malls, or cruising the streets. He eats a healthy diet and does well in school. It is all part of the package. Other people find it in other sports, music, arts etc. As long as the kids have something to do and the parents can afford it than what is the issue??

                            Comment


                              #15
                              vestsiorbhow

                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              I agree with you. Not sure if my kid is any better than most but he is doing okay. He has made many great choices specifically in regards to his friends and his body. Drugs and alcohol take a back seat to training. His friends share those choices. I feel that he is on the right track. Rather than bored and in trouble he spends much of his spare time training and off the streets. He does participate in other activities but you won't find him wondering the malls, or cruising the streets. He eats a healthy diet and does well in school. It is all part of the package. Other people find it in other sports, music, arts etc. As long as the kids have something to do and the parents can afford it than what is the issue??
                              Good point. As my kid gets closer to the 15-17 years, the focus and discipline provided by sports gives me greater confidence that some really bad choices might be avoided. I know that's not a universal truth, since there are many good, dedicated soccer players that still do dumb, teenaged things. But it's one more potentially positive influence during what is a tricky time for kids and making decisions.

                              Comment

                              Previously entered content was automatically saved. Restore or Discard.
                              Auto-Saved
                              x
                              Insert: Thumbnail Small Medium Large Fullsize Remove  
                              x
                              Working...
                              X