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US WNT Suing over gender discrimination

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    #76
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Oh but it is. Costs on advertising, marketing, stadiums etc are based on what return is needed to give profit over costs. As women’s salaries go up, the effort to keep profits up will increase. If salaries increase, the possibility of women aiming to make a pro career profitable goes up. So more money is spent getting them to that pro career which means more people become invested in the sport, aware of it, and turn it into a family hobby, building fan base. Which is then the real revenue machine.
    This is not how it works. Advertising spend is based on what you think you can get in return.
    Take a business class or two and educate yourself.

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      #77
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      Oh but it is. Costs on advertising, marketing, stadiums etc are based on what return is needed to give profit over costs. As women’s salaries go up, the effort to keep profits up will increase. If salaries increase, the possibility of women aiming to make a pro career profitable goes up. So more money is spent getting them to that pro career which means more people become invested in the sport, aware of it, and turn it into a family hobby, building fan base. Which is then the real revenue machine.
      Outside of the national team every few years, there's virtually no interest in women's soccer. Soccer isn't that popular in the US and even less so women's soccer. Women's basketball struggles and basketball is a much more popular sport. Salaries won't start going up until soccer becomes more popular and there's more butts in seats at the local level. Until then the attention will remain on the NT every World Cup and Olympic cycle. In not paying the women's team the same as the men it sends a message that USSF doesn't feel their contribution and effort is the same as the men's, when in reality women's soccer would be in a very state without their success. I say that from a purely PR standpoint. The average non-soccer person doesn't care/understand about how the men getting a share of a bigger pie etc. They just see the women getting paid less yet succeeding where the men fail.

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        #78
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        Outside of the national team every few years, there's virtually no interest in women's soccer. Soccer isn't that popular in the US and even less so women's soccer. Women's basketball struggles and basketball is a much more popular sport. Salaries won't start going up until soccer becomes more popular and there's more butts in seats at the local level. Until then the attention will remain on the NT every World Cup and Olympic cycle. In not paying the women's team the same as the men it sends a message that USSF doesn't feel their contribution and effort is the same as the men's, when in reality women's soccer would be in a very state without their success. I say that from a purely PR standpoint. The average non-soccer person doesn't care/understand about how the men getting a share of a bigger pie etc. They just see the women getting paid less yet succeeding where the men fail.
        Actually all the men on the MNT are playing for professional teams and many are earning great salaries. I would hardly call that failing. Meanwhile, with few exceptions, the women on the WNT are struggling to earn a living wage. Getting the same national team pay once every four year cycle will do little to augment that. Mommy and Daddy better be still helping pay their bills. Unless they can swing an endorsement deal or end up in the booth announcing, they should quit and find a real job.

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          #79
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          The men get more fans? Here’s a reality check https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/01/us-...blem-berhalter

          The women are the ones who’ve done the most to advance soccer in this country so they really are the revenue drivers. When the men’s team wins as many WCs and Olympics as the women then they can honestly say they deserve to be paid better.
          women have not done more to advance the sport. thats a fallacy and not really relevant. All that matters here is can the women prove that they are doing the same job as the men. If so, they will be awarded the same benefits and pay.

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            #80
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Actually all the men on the MNT are playing for professional teams and many are earning great salaries. I would hardly call that failing. Meanwhile, with few exceptions, the women on the WNT are struggling to earn a living wage. Getting the same national team pay once every four year cycle will do little to augment that. Mommy and Daddy better be still helping pay their bills. Unless they can swing an endorsement deal or end up in the booth announcing, they should quit and find a real job.
            nonsense. the women on the WNT make a ton of money EVERY year. its the women not on the WNT who struggle.

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              #81
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Actually all the men on the MNT are playing for professional teams and many are earning great salaries. I would hardly call that failing. Meanwhile, with few exceptions, the women on the WNT are struggling to earn a living wage. Getting the same national team pay once every four year cycle will do little to augment that. Mommy and Daddy better be still helping pay their bills. Unless they can swing an endorsement deal or end up in the booth announcing, they should quit and find a real job.
              I meant at the men's NT level vs women's NT. Professionally they are the opposite.

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                #82
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                The men get more fans? Here’s a reality check https://ftw.usatoday.com/2019/01/us-...blem-berhalter

                The women are the ones who’ve done the most to advance soccer in this country so they really are the revenue drivers. When the men’s team wins as many WCs and Olympics as the women then they can honestly say they deserve to be paid better.
                Mens games still average almost twice what the women draw.

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  I meant at the men's NT level vs women's NT. Professionally they are the opposite.
                  Men's Soccer is the World's most popular sport by far. Over 200 Nations pour their heart and souls into the World Cup. England, who is positively obsessed with football, has not won a Championship in over 50 years and failed to even make the final 32 last time the World Cup was played here. I would hardly call their program a failure. Why should we?
                  Meanwhile, nearly all those same nations care little for Women's soccer. Of the few dozen that do, only a handful apply more than a pedestrian level of support and $$ to the sport. Most of the "internationals" we play against in the World Cup are teammates in US College Soccer. Our playing in the World Cup is akin to when our Dream Team played Men's Basketball in the Olympics in 1992 or if we suddenly declared a World Cup in Men's American Football then played Canada and a few others. We own Women's soccer. It is telling that a Brazilian top female soccer player felt she needed to move to the USA to develop her skills. Brazil not a soccer country?
                  Given all that, it is actually shocking that since 1999, the USA has only won one Women's World Cup. The Men have made the final knockout round multiple times over that stretch, as good as one should expect. I don't the stark gap you do.

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    Men's Soccer is the World's most popular sport by far. Over 200 Nations pour their heart and souls into the World Cup. England, who is positively obsessed with football, has not won a Championship in over 50 years and failed to even make the final 32 last time the World Cup was played here. I would hardly call their program a failure. Why should we?
                    Meanwhile, nearly all those same nations care little for Women's soccer. Of the few dozen that do, only a handful apply more than a pedestrian level of support and $$ to the sport. Most of the "internationals" we play against in the World Cup are teammates in US College Soccer. Our playing in the World Cup is akin to when our Dream Team played Men's Basketball in the Olympics in 1992 or if we suddenly declared a World Cup in Men's American Football then played Canada and a few others. We own Women's soccer. It is telling that a Brazilian top female soccer player felt she needed to move to the USA to develop her skills. Brazil not a soccer country?
                    Given all that, it is actually shocking that since 1999, the USA has only won one Women's World Cup. The Men have made the final knockout round multiple times over that stretch, as good as one should expect. I don't the stark gap you do.
                    i think many of the points you made were true years ago, not so much now. I think the Brazilian player you refer to, like others from other nations, came here to further her academic interests using soccer. most women do not choose to focus on soccer alone based on simple economics. The ones that do certainly do not come here.

                    we are no longer the Dream team and have not been for some time. We will always be good, but we are not maximizing resources or opportunity. we are very complacent and it shows

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Men's Soccer is the World's most popular sport by far. Over 200 Nations pour their heart and souls into the World Cup. England, who is positively obsessed with football, has not won a Championship in over 50 years and failed to even make the final 32 last time the World Cup was played here. I would hardly call their program a failure. Why should we?
                      Meanwhile, nearly all those same nations care little for Women's soccer. Of the few dozen that do, only a handful apply more than a pedestrian level of support and $$ to the sport. Most of the "internationals" we play against in the World Cup are teammates in US College Soccer. Our playing in the World Cup is akin to when our Dream Team played Men's Basketball in the Olympics in 1992 or if we suddenly declared a World Cup in Men's American Football then played Canada and a few others. We own Women's soccer. It is telling that a Brazilian top female soccer player felt she needed to move to the USA to develop her skills. Brazil not a soccer country?
                      Given all that, it is actually shocking that since 1999, the USA has only won one Women's World Cup. The Men have made the final knockout round multiple times over that stretch, as good as one should expect. I don't the stark gap you do.

                      Assume this post was written about 8 years ago. It doesn't apply well today.

                      Barca v Atletico women's just played in front of 60k. Most women internationals aren't coming here for college any longer.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        Men's Soccer is the World's most popular sport by far. Over 200 Nations pour their heart and souls into the World Cup. England, who is positively obsessed with football, has not won a Championship in over 50 years and failed to even make the final 32 last time the World Cup was played here. I would hardly call their program a failure. Why should we?
                        Meanwhile, nearly all those same nations care little for Women's soccer. Of the few dozen that do, only a handful apply more than a pedestrian level of support and $$ to the sport. Most of the "internationals" we play against in the World Cup are teammates in US College Soccer. Our playing in the World Cup is akin to when our Dream Team played Men's Basketball in the Olympics in 1992 or if we suddenly declared a World Cup in Men's American Football then played Canada and a few others. We own Women's soccer. It is telling that a Brazilian top female soccer player felt she needed to move to the USA to develop her skills. Brazil not a soccer country?
                        Given all that, it is actually shocking that since 1999, the USA has only won one Women's World Cup. The Men have made the final knockout round multiple times over that stretch, as good as one should expect. I don't the stark gap you do.
                        What are you talking about? The US women won the last World Cup in 2015. In fact, they’ve been in the top 3 teams in each of the last 4 WCs since they won in 1991. The US men have never won or even gotten past group stage. In fact, they didn’t even qualify to get into the last WC. The women have also won Olympic gold, which the men have never done.

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          What are you talking about? The US women won the last World Cup in 2015. In fact, they’ve been in the top 3 teams in each of the last 4 WCs since they won in 1991. The US men have never won or even gotten past group stage. In fact, they didn’t even qualify to get into the last WC. The women have also won Olympic gold, which the men have never done.
                          There are only a handful of teams that have even a remote chance of winning so finishing in the top four should be a cakewalk for the USA. In this century, they have won 1 of 4. Pathetic.

                          In this century, the men have made the quarterfinals once, the round of 16 twice, and the round of 32 another. 4 of 5 times making the World Cup. I say that is better given that the Mens side have far more competitive teams.
                          Check the lineups of all the major US College Soccer teams. Stanford, FSU, UNC, UCLA, etc all have foreign stars. WVU practically carried the Canadian WNT to Morgantown.

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            There are only a handful of teams that have even a remote chance of winning so finishing in the top four should be a cakewalk for the USA. In this century, they have won 1 of 4. Pathetic.

                            In this century, the men have made the quarterfinals once, the round of 16 twice, and the round of 32 another. 4 of 5 times making the World Cup. I say that is better given that the Mens side have far more competitive teams.
                            Check the lineups of all the major US College Soccer teams. Stanford, FSU, UNC, UCLA, etc all have foreign stars. WVU practically carried the Canadian WNT to Morgantown.
                            Interesting way to twist the facts to fit your argument. So the women are pathetic for winning 1 of the last 4 World Cups and coming in 2nd or 3rd place when they didn’t win, but the men’s team which has never won or even made the semis even once are not pathetic? And why stop at the turn of this century? Go back to 1991 when the Women’s World Cup started. Since then the US women have won 3 times, more than any other country. And how many times have the men won in the last 30 years - zero!

                            And what does it matter that there are foreign players on college teams? If anything, it just reflects worse on men’s US college teams, which are overwhelmingly foreigners, whereas the majority of women’s US college team rosters are US players. The foreign influence has guided the men’s side of the game much more so than the women’s side here.

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Men's college teams aren't "overwhelmingly" international. It varies greatly. The D1 average is 16% and you'll typically see 4-8 players on D1. Finalists Indiana had none and Wake Forest had four. It's limited largely because of finances - coaches only have 9.9 scholarships to give out and international get a good portion of those scholarships (they can go to school almost for free back home).

                              For women it's smaller (6.2%) but definitely growing. FSU has seven, Stanford just one, so again kind of all over the place.

                              DII has even more (21% men, 5% women) and both DII men's and women's champions this year had like 14+ international players. Not sure how the money works when the numbers are that high (both men and women only have 9 scholarships per team if fully funded). In D3 international players are a non factor.

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                Interesting way to twist the facts to fit your argument. So the women are pathetic for winning 1 of the last 4 World Cups and coming in 2nd or 3rd place when they didn’t win, but the men’s team which has never won or even made the semis even once are not pathetic? And why stop at the turn of this century? Go back to 1991 when the Women’s World Cup started. Since then the US women have won 3 times, more than any other country. And how many times have the men won in the last 30 years - zero!

                                And what does it matter that there are foreign players on college teams? If anything, it just reflects worse on men’s US college teams, which are overwhelmingly foreigners, whereas the majority of women’s US college team rosters are US players. The foreign influence has guided the men’s side of the game much more so than the women’s side here.
                                Foreign players a response to post 85.

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