ECNL College Impact

[Unregistered]

I didn't start the thread!!! Just sick of the obsession over attacking every little detail. Be happy with your own club and leave everyone else alone! Why do you have to turn everything into a religious crusade?!!! #Enough already!

Because 9/10ths of the posts slamming both sides come from those who have financial interests in the success of their respective clubs and leagues (club coaches/DOCs/management). Rarely are there actual parents chiming in and when they do they get beaten down by the opposition like a rented mule.

[Unregistered]

This is just another manifestation of pay to play clubs selling status by virtue of destination and some segment of parents chasing it.

This is an accomplishment of the player first, certainly of many coaches along the way as well, including long before the league existed.

At its base, any attribution of the accomplishment too the league is absurd.

[Unregistered]

Because 9/10ths of the posts slamming both sides come from those who have financial interests in the success of their respective clubs and leagues (club coaches/DOCs/management). Rarely are there actual parents chiming in and when they do they get beaten down by the opposition like a rented mule.

Absolutely false, BTDT. Anyone following the site in recent years and even the last couple of weeks can see plaining that it is 90% you, and there is NO evidence that club officials or coaches are posting at all. You want there to be a Holy War but you are the only one waging it.

Again, like so many of your topics, this is not complicated.

The fact that the majority of players come from ECNL doesn't negate that a healthy % come from other places. And you are correct that the league didn't make the percentages what they are. Many of the better clubs that were producing college players joined ECNL. The name of the league is meaningless. Good players need good places to train and play. Stars are pretty good. NEFC is pretty good.

Why can't you let it go???!!!!! Really, do you ever pause and actually think about what you are doing?

[Unregistered]

In my opinion. The ECNL participation in Div 1 Women's soccer and US youth national teams will continue to increase as it has for the last few years especially as a relegation system is implemented and weaker clubs are released.

[Unregistered]

Absolutely false, BTDT. Anyone following the site in recent years and even the last couple of weeks can see plaining that it is 90% you, and there is NO evidence that club officials or coaches are posting at all. You want there to be a Holy War but you are the only one waging it.

Again, like so many of your topics, this is not complicated.

The fact that the majority of players come from ECNL doesn't negate that a healthy % come from other places. And you are correct that the league didn't make the percentages what they are. Many of the better clubs that were producing college players joined ECNL. The name of the league is meaningless. Good players need good places to train and play. Stars are pretty good. NEFC is pretty good.

Why can't you let it go???!!!!! Really, do you ever pause and actually think about what you are doing?

Not BTDT you clown. I am an actual ECNL parent and I suspect you are not. Most of the infighting on this board is the result of strawman arguments between factions with monetary interests in the club business. There is zero doubt about it. Club soccer is big business and looking at any other state forums on this board and you see the same stale arguments with only the club names changed. This site has more disinformation than even even the best CIA operatives could devise.

[Unregistered]

No, you are clearly just selectively pulling up catch phrases to "hook" readers. Know exactly what you were trying to say and do. Efficiency is another way of saying "one stop shopping". The whole "one stop shopping" for college coaches sales pitch was pretty much soundly torn apart years ago when it was first trotted out. It is not efficient for the coaches if the players they need to see aren't at the event. Since you went through this with D when the ECNL was first launched the quality has been steadily dropping as the league has expanded. College coaches now lament the sea of mediocrity and talk about how big and bloated it is.

Another thing you didn't mention is your numbers reflect the class of 2013 which would have been freshman in high school the year the league started in 2009. The ECNL had no impact in their development since it didn't exist in their formative years. Most of those players you are citing would have been committed in 2010 when the ECNL was roughly half the size it is now and had a very different competitive format. It still mirrored the old Red Bull league which was only the showcases. No question that in those early years that there was a buzz about the ECNL that would have helped those players. Unfortunately that ECNL no longer exists.

More putting words in other people's mouths. You really don't understand that someone can think independently from you and have logical, well-formed opinions that differ from yours. I never said that the league was doing a better job of developing talent, and don't care about the watering down complaint. It's irrelevant, as long as ECNL events continue to be the most efficient places for colleges to see talent. I don't view the league as any better at developing great players than the entities that came before it. I view it is a collection mechanism for top players, and to that end it seems to be working quite well. If there were a promo/relegation opportunity for clubs that have also collected top talent, that would be an improvement - but that's unlikely due to political factors (IMO).

Finally, you might want to decide which talking point you want to push and stick to it. You're all over the place.

PS: (and the charge that I used catch phrases to hook readers is actually a compliment - even if it's not true)

[Unregistered]

This is just another manifestation of pay to play clubs selling status by virtue of destination and some segment of parents chasing it.

This is an accomplishment of the player first, certainly of many coaches along the way as well, including long before the league existed.

At its base, any attribution of the accomplishment too the league is absurd.

Agreed. The players have the talent and put in the work to become good, great, whatever. Leagues are just where they happen to compete, and don't do much to develop the players other than providing the right competitive challenge.

However, the fact that more top players are playing in a particular place and that the colleges seem to be shopping there is undeniable, and was the point of the original posts.

[Unregistered]

Agreed. The players have the talent and put in the work to become good, great, whatever. Leagues are just where they happen to compete, and don't do much to develop the players other than providing the right competitive challenge.

However, the fact that more top players are playing in a particular place and that the colleges seem to be shopping there is undeniable, and was the point of the original posts.

No disagreement there. It's been built, the market forces being what they are, with competent management member clubs, those numbers will see some level of growth.

[Unregistered]

I didn't start the thread!!! Just sick of the obsession over attacking every little detail. Be happy with your own club and leave everyone else alone! Why do you have to turn everything into a religious crusade?!!! #Enough already!

Because 9/10ths of the posts slamming both sides come from those who have financial interests in the success of their respective clubs and leagues (club coaches/DOCs/management). Rarely are there actual parents chiming in and when they do they get beaten down by the opposition like a rented mule.

I'm going to take your post at face value (something I wish more would do) and simply congratulate the following poster for giving you a great answer (No I am not that poster). I want to add that we will never know who started this thread and what their reasons were for starting it, all that we really can do is discuss the points made. That is what one does on a forum. The rest is just stupidity.

This isn't a billboard where someone can just throw up a marketing message and not accept commentary. You are in the wrong place if you think that is what really should be happening here. The Stars are not getting beaten up here. I'm sorry if their marketing message is getting trampled a little bit but the reality is someone with an ECNL bias started a thread they thought would support that league and them by extension. That is just part of the business of club soccer now that you need to accept. The clubs are all here selling their wares. Their marketing message is being attacked for being inaccurate because the data is obviously full of holes. Picking it apart is another part of the business side of club soccer. If you can't stomach that either you shouldn't come here or your club shouldn't be putting out such badly constructed marketing messages

[Unregistered]

This is just another manifestation of pay to play clubs selling status by virtue of destination and some segment of parents chasing it.

This is an accomplishment of the player first, certainly of many coaches along the way as well, including long before the league existed.

At its base, any attribution of the accomplishment too the league is absurd.

Well said.

[Unregistered]

Agreed. The players have the talent and put in the work to become good, great, whatever. Leagues are just where they happen to compete, and don't do much to develop the players other than providing the right competitive challenge.

However, the fact that more top players are playing in a particular place and that the colleges seem to be shopping there is undeniable, and was the point of the original posts.

Yes it is deniable because there is NO data that shows it and my personal observation is that what is actually happening is the other channels are gaining more steam.

Think about this for a second. The Stars have 31 players publically listed as committed to a college in the class of 2015. Only 15 of them are listed as playing for the ECNL team. That is less than 50%. In prior years those numbers for their "A" team would have been pretty similar. What has changed is the numbers from their "B" teams. Those are new and they are a function of club expansion into areas that are definitely not involved with the ECNL. When you think about it you might actually have to go back and sift through the data to ensure that all of those players actually played in the ECNL because there is only so many ECNL roster spots.

[Unregistered]

Yes it is deniable because there is NO data that shows it and my personal observation is that what is actually happening is the other channels are gaining more steam.

Think about this for a second. The Stars have 31 players publically listed as committed to a college in the class of 2015. Only 15 of them are listed as playing for the ECNL team. That is less than 50%. In prior years those numbers for their "A" team would have been pretty similar. What has changed is the numbers from their "B" teams. Those are new and they are a function of club expansion into areas that are definitely not involved with the ECNL. When you think about it you might actually have to go back and sift through the data to ensure that all of those players actually played in the ECNL because there is only so many ECNL roster spots.

Players and parents make choices about where to play for any number of reasons, but if you're even suggesting that ECNL isn't the draw in the scenario you're referring to, you're deluding yourself. I've had a number of teammates leave my kid's team in the past year, all drawn by the possibility or the certainty of higher level competition and leagues. Some are playing ECNL, the rest hope to.

[Unregistered]

Yes it is deniable because there is NO data that shows it and my personal observation is that what is actually happening is the other channels are gaining more steam.

Think about this for a second. The Stars have 31 players publically listed as committed to a college in the class of 2015. Only 15 of them are listed as playing for the ECNL team. That is less than 50%. In prior years those numbers for their "A" team would have been pretty similar. What has changed is the numbers from their "B" teams. Those are new and they are a function of club expansion into areas that are definitely not involved with the ECNL. When you think about it you might actually have to go back and sift through the data to ensure that all of those players actually played in the ECNL because there is only so many ECNL roster spots.

Or it is a function of having a second team that is much stronger than usual. Remember, this B team has been State Champion several times (including when the A team was still playing State Cup).

[Unregistered]

Or it is a function of having a second team that is much stronger than usual. Remember, this B team has been State Champion several times (including when the A team was still playing State Cup).

It's a function of the draw to the ECNL destination.

We wouldn't be reading this thread and the article linked that weren't true. It's the whole idea behind it and why not everyone can be a never club, right?

[Unregistered]

[QUOTE=Unregistered;1401329]More putting words in other people's mouths. You really don't understand that someone can think independently from you and have logical, well-formed opinions that differ from yours. I never said that the league was doing a better job of developing talent, and don't care about the watering down complaint. It's irrelevant, as long as ECNL events continue to be the most efficient places for colleges to see talent. I don't view the league as any better at developing great players than the entities that came before it. I view it is a collection mechanism for top players, and to that end it seems to be working quite well. If there were a promo/relegation opportunity for clubs that have also collected top talent, that would be an improvement - but that's unlikely due to political factors (IMO).

As an ECNL parent, we were never promised that being part of this league would mean our players would be "better developed". We allowed our daughter to join ECNL for the very reason you state. "I view it is a collection mechanism for top players, and to that end it seems to be working quite well."

After all, isn't the title/topic of this thread ECNL College Impact? You stated our point very well. Thank you.