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Identifying and Watching A Developmental Saboteur

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    #16
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Why restrict this to U10-U16? This description sounds like my daughter's last college coach - able to sweet talk the hell of a new recruit, but unable to develop them or teach the game once he has them in the door.
    Not his job. He is there to win.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      Ecnl clubs? He describes Nefc to a T.
      I have two daughters, 12 and 14, playing for NEFC for the last 3 years. After every game, win or lose, their coaches talk about what went well and what didn't. And what they'll be working on at the next practice. Disappointed when they play poorly but still win; praise and encourage the kids when they play well but still lose. Focus is on getting better, and I can honestly say both have continued to develop and improve, which is the goal.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        I have two daughters, 12 and 14, playing for NEFC for the last 3 years. After every game, win or lose, their coaches talk about what went well and what didn't. And what they'll be working on at the next practice. Disappointed when they play poorly but still win; praise and encourage the kids when they play well but still lose. Focus is on getting better, and I can honestly say both have continued to develop and improve, which is the goal.
        Any coach worth his salt (with priorities in order and ego in check) should be doing the same.

        Comment


          #19
          The ironic part is that many of the "uneducated parents" mentioned are just like some of the talking soccer parents posting in this forum. All talking about the "elite" league or division or game winning team that there kids are on - virtually NO discussion or perspective of whether their kid is actually getting better technically and tactically. And no perspective of what "getting good " actually is, except that the team won , or is a da team of premier team or ecnl team.

          Maybe a reality check would be that the player is getting real good if they could keep up or dominate in the soccer system of the soccer countries. The honest answer for virtually all the players told they are elite here by their parents or coaches would absolutely fail in a tryout or game in the soccer contras mid to elite level academies. They would be way behind technically and tactically - and without that even the strongest athletes from here wouldn't even touch the ball in a game situation there as the ball would be whizzing around them.

          There's something wrong here when many "top" players in the U.S. Aren't even really developed by their clubs, but outside trainers etc. just my two cents.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            The ironic part is that many of the "uneducated parents" mentioned are just like some of the talking soccer parents posting in this forum. All talking about the "elite" league or division or game winning team that there kids are on - virtually NO discussion or perspective of whether their kid is actually getting better technically and tactically. And no perspective of what "getting good " actually is, except that the team won , or is a da team of premier team or ecnl team.

            Maybe a reality check would be that the player is getting real good if they could keep up or dominate in the soccer system of the soccer countries. The honest answer for virtually all the players told they are elite here by their parents or coaches would absolutely fail in a tryout or game in the soccer contras mid to elite level academies. They would be way behind technically and tactically - and without that even the strongest athletes from here wouldn't even touch the ball in a game situation there as the ball would be whizzing around them.

            There's something wrong here when many "top" players in the U.S. Aren't even really developed by their clubs, but outside trainers etc. just my two cents.
            Have to start by educating the parents that they are being sucked in first. Unfortunately this site is frequented by a lot of the type of coaches that Lavers is talking about and they defender their ability to f**ck over everyone to the hilt

            Comment


              #21
              Don't disagree with a lot of what the article says but find it ironic because ECNL itself is all about the league and not the teaching and that's why we have so many elitest fools in this state telling parents that their kids are going to be "left behind" if they don't get with the ECNL program. NPL is now just as guilty (with less than 2 years under their belt in this state) yet year after year kids achieve their soccer goals without participating in either league. Messages at tryout times are notorious for trying to make parents feel bad if their kid isn't getting the "exposure" they need if they aren't in one of these leagues.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Not his job. He is there to win.
                It is this philosophy that keeps the US from getting better. The fact of the matter is most college coaches have no idea how to develop players so they hide behind this philosophy.

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  Don't disagree with a lot of what the article says but find it ironic because ECNL itself is all about the league and not the teaching and that's why we have so many elitest fools in this state telling parents that their kids are going to be "left behind" if they don't get with the ECNL program. NPL is now just as guilty (with less than 2 years under their belt in this state) yet year after year kids achieve their soccer goals without participating in either league. Messages at tryout times are notorious for trying to make parents feel bad if their kid isn't getting the "exposure" they need if they aren't in one of these leagues.
                  Exposure and league aside it seems a partial solution to the dilemma described in the article could be to separate the game coach from the players regularly. Insert here development coaching staff that could have the power to build their program irrespective of wins and even age group and remix the players having the most complete skill sets in a different environment where the only pressure is to be the most complete player not the most specialized player.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    It is this philosophy that keeps the US from getting better. The fact of the matter is most college coaches have no idea how to develop players so they hide behind this philosophy.
                    You should know how to play at this point in your life. If your touch still lacks, you're not playing in college. The only instruction a college coach should be giving is how to play his system. Does it involve pass and move or is it more direct? Is there development that occurs during training session? Of course, but it is secondary.
                    Btw, define development for us in collegiate terms.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      You should know how to play at this point in your life. If your touch still lacks, you're not playing in college. The only instruction a college coach should be giving is how to play his system. Does it involve pass and move or is it more direct? Is there development that occurs during training session? Of course, but it is secondary.
                      Btw, define development for us in collegiate terms.
                      Until the US youth system stops worrying about results, nothing will ever change.
                      Period.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        "There's something wrong here when many "top" players in the U.S. Aren't even really developed by their clubs, but outside trainers etc. just my two cents."

                        The above was the last sentence in a recent post in this thread, and it got me thinking. I started my coaching carreer in club about 20 years ago, and I was fortunate to learn from a number f great coaches that focused on development, and the process of learning to play the game a number of ways. They focused on the possession, and all that was required to be capable when they went into HS, and then maybe college. They taught the players that being able to keep possession as a team and as an individual was the what separated great players from good, but they also taught their players how to play direct. They taught players that at some point in their playing time will require them to learn both. Playing a man down/up may require you to play a specific way. They taught players that the way the other team is playing may require more or less possession, and sometimes beating a team that plays high or tries to trap will require less possession and more direct play. They also taught them that Being able to float between both will make players/teams better to handle whatever happens.

                        These coaches were stead fast in their approach, and believed a great first touch was the key. Being able to be proficient in the technical would give more time to play with their head up, and able to read the game faster. This would lead to better movement off the ball and create other options, and this would lead players to be able to make better decisions, and be able to play possession with the 5-10 yard pass or with a 30 yard pass that bypasses the midfield, and be comfortable floating between possession and direct. That was the goal for them, and I don't see the combination of the two anymore.

                        I do see coaches and clubs getting better at teaching the technical foundation that these coaches would teach, but I'm not seeing teams that can operate tactically in both areas, or players being able to see past the 10 yard pass or 1st option. I also don't see teams/players be able to protect the ball on purpose to drag teams out of their plan, and create situations. I only see possession for the sake of possession. I haven't seen a local team control the tempo of a game in a number of years, or be able to recognize when to play short and when to play long. I saw a team that was technically superior to another, but the team with less ability was fast and pressed all over the field and high. All it would have taken to break them down and force them into being stretched was a couple of balls over the top to a midfield replacing a checking in forward or for a forward to make a rounded run between to backs, and for a player to take the chance over or through into the 60 yards of empty space behind the backs.

                        I know that the game goes in cycles and right now it's the Barcelona style that is prevalent in the game, but this isn't going to develop better thinking players. There were coaches who could teach both, and could get players to understand that both makes you better at the one you will need at the right time. Where have these coaches gone? They sad answer is they've gotten out of club soccer. They either moved on to college or higher, and do the private training thing. I've asked my former teachers why and they all say the same thing, they can't coach the way they want or should anymore. Coaches only spend a year or two with the same team, and clubs don't do a good enough job being consistent with what is being taught coach to coach. We hear it all the time! This player did well with this coach or that coach, then had a coach who only wanted this way or that way. We post about what a great coach this one is or how poor that one is, and we never put 2 and 2 together. The way we teach the game needs to be consistent from coach to coach, and needs to be all aspects of how to play the game.

                        Too many coaches only coaching what they're comfortable with, and not getting better educated to teach it all, and every year. Not the current way of one year it's possesion all the way up the field, and one year it's Route 1, it needs to be incorporated into every year, and it needs to be explained to parents and players why it should be this way. Your players need to learn that there are more than one way to play game to game and minute to minute. We need more of these coaches, and we need to not demand the club bring in a new coach or threaten to move on to another team after a 2 game losing streak. Until we do American soccer will be stuck right where it is now. Not bad but not great either!

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Came across this on the CT site. Evidently it's a newer club that is trying to shake things up and do it differently. Intense training, less traveling (in state for games and only travel is key showcase events. No weekends on the road). They just did their own college id clinic. Already have some players committed to colleges in a short period of time.

                          http://girlscanfootball.com/connecticut/

                          - ECNL parent who doesn't think ECNL is all that

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Came across this on the CT site. Evidently it's a newer club that is trying to shake things up and do it differently. Intense training, less traveling (in state for games and only travel is key showcase events. No weekends on the road). They just did their own college id clinic. Already have some players committed to colleges in a short period of time.

                            http://girlscanfootball.com/connecticut/

                            - ECNL parent who doesn't think ECNL is all that
                            Thanks BTNT!

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              "There's something wrong here when many "top" players in the U.S. Aren't even really developed by their clubs, but outside trainers etc. just my two cents."

                              The above was the last sentence in a recent post in this thread, and it got me thinking. I started my coaching carreer in club about 20 years ago, and I was fortunate to learn from a number f great coaches that focused on development, and the process of learning to play the game a number of ways. They focused on the possession, and all that was required to be capable when they went into HS, and then maybe college. They taught the players that being able to keep possession as a team and as an individual was the what separated great players from good, but they also taught their players how to play direct. They taught players that at some point in their playing time will require them to learn both. Playing a man down/up may require you to play a specific way. They taught players that the way the other team is playing may require more or less possession, and sometimes beating a team that plays high or tries to trap will require less possession and more direct play. They also taught them that Being able to float between both will make players/teams better to handle whatever happens.

                              These coaches were stead fast in their approach, and believed a great first touch was the key. Being able to be proficient in the technical would give more time to play with their head up, and able to read the game faster. This would lead to better movement off the ball and create other options, and this would lead players to be able to make better decisions, and be able to play possession with the 5-10 yard pass or with a 30 yard pass that bypasses the midfield, and be comfortable floating between possession and direct. That was the goal for them, and I don't see the combination of the two anymore.

                              I do see coaches and clubs getting better at teaching the technical foundation that these coaches would teach, but I'm not seeing teams that can operate tactically in both areas, or players being able to see past the 10 yard pass or 1st option. I also don't see teams/players be able to protect the ball on purpose to drag teams out of their plan, and create situations. I only see possession for the sake of possession. I haven't seen a local team control the tempo of a game in a number of years, or be able to recognize when to play short and when to play long. I saw a team that was technically superior to another, but the team with less ability was fast and pressed all over the field and high. All it would have taken to break them down and force them into being stretched was a couple of balls over the top to a midfield replacing a checking in forward or for a forward to make a rounded run between to backs, and for a player to take the chance over or through into the 60 yards of empty space behind the backs.

                              I know that the game goes in cycles and right now it's the Barcelona style that is prevalent in the game, but this isn't going to develop better thinking players. There were coaches who could teach both, and could get players to understand that both makes you better at the one you will need at the right time. Where have these coaches gone? They sad answer is they've gotten out of club soccer. They either moved on to college or higher, and do the private training thing. I've asked my former teachers why and they all say the same thing, they can't coach the way they want or should anymore. Coaches only spend a year or two with the same team, and clubs don't do a good enough job being consistent with what is being taught coach to coach. We hear it all the time! This player did well with this coach or that coach, then had a coach who only wanted this way or that way. We post about what a great coach this one is or how poor that one is, and we never put 2 and 2 together. The way we teach the game needs to be consistent from coach to coach, and needs to be all aspects of how to play the game.

                              Too many coaches only coaching what they're comfortable with, and not getting better educated to teach it all, and every year. Not the current way of one year it's possesion all the way up the field, and one year it's Route 1, it needs to be incorporated into every year, and it needs to be explained to parents and players why it should be this way. Your players need to learn that there are more than one way to play game to game and minute to minute. We need more of these coaches, and we need to not demand the club bring in a new coach or threaten to move on to another team after a 2 game losing streak. Until we do American soccer will be stuck right where it is now. Not bad but not great either!
                              Im the OP you quoted- thanks for the post and sharing your experience. The first thing the soccer countries academy base team coaches would spot about American players they interacted with were:

                              1) you learned almost nothing high level tactically in your American club experience compared to international level (and these were "top" US clubs or academy players
                              2) to the kids that stood out reasonably technically it was almost always the case when asked that they learned this outside of club environment ie trained with an outside coach usually with foreign background, or parent trained them and was ex pro ,or played lots of futsal etc outside of club
                              3) there was lot less care that a kid was physically more or less mature for his age the touch and tactical was most important, the physical side all the top academy coaches said was the easiest to train over time and they knew how to spot potential talent to adjust for this ( was said maturity comes in "gods time") and were dumbfounded by all the focus on advanced for age body type athletes without having skill and tactical in the US. You would have to be exceptionally athletic (not just mature for age) or even better exceptionally skilled for them to take positive notice.
                              4) with very few exceptions no one was ever impressed with a league or US tournament title etc to be honest- how you stacked up individually to the pro track kids there is all that mattered.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                Im the OP you quoted- thanks for the post and sharing your experience. The first thing the soccer countries academy base team coaches would spot about American players they interacted with were:

                                1) you learned almost nothing high level tactically in your American club experience compared to international level (and these were "top" US clubs or academy players
                                2) to the kids that stood out reasonably technically it was almost always the case when asked that they learned this outside of club environment ie trained with an outside coach usually with foreign background, or parent trained them and was ex pro ,or played lots of futsal etc outside of club
                                3) there was lot less care that a kid was physically more or less mature for his age the touch and tactical was most important, the physical side all the top academy coaches said was the easiest to train over time and they knew how to spot potential talent to adjust for this ( was said maturity comes in "gods time") and were dumbfounded by all the focus on advanced for age body type athletes without having skill and tactical in the US. You would have to be exceptionally athletic (not just mature for age) or even better exceptionally skilled for them to take positive notice.
                                4) with very few exceptions no one was ever impressed with a league or US tournament title etc to be honest- how you stacked up individually to the pro track kids there is all that mattered.
                                Great insight.

                                Comment

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