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  #631  
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.......... And you were really distorted acting like a 1250 competing with 1550s so successfully is a common thing.
The kids with the 1550s are not always the ones who are succeed. Diligence, hard work, sacrifice, are also important. We all know that really smart kid who got a few Cs because he partied too hard or was distracted by other things.

Of course, there is a correlation with SATs and college grades, but it is not the be all and end all. Also, SATs tend to measure one type of intelligence. As learning becomes more than memorization as college goes on, the speedy responses valued by the SATs become less relevant to the mastery of the material.
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  #632  
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"Shadowing" is not sustained volunteerism.
Volunteering at a hospital or clinic is a way to get direct experience about health care and show your seriousness about medicine as a career. The experience at the hospital or clinic is not about the "sustained volunteerism" rather it is important because of gaining direct experience in the health care professions.

"HEALTH CARE EXPERIENCE
According to a recent survey of medical schools, knowledge of health care issues and commitment to health care were among the top five variables considered very important to student selection (the other four were med school interview ratings, GPA, MCAT scores, and letters of recommendation)."

Of course, being a concert level pianist teaches you things. Maybe it helps if you want to become a hand surgeon.....
'Commitment to health care' -- I know a little bit about this and how they determine who is the real deal and who isn't.

Actually not sure what your point is. It's not easy to get in and you have to have the stats and also multiple other factors. Being an athlete is a plus, but it's not the only plus, and you need multiple pluses.
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  #633  
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The kids with the 1550s are not always the ones who are succeed. Diligence, hard work, sacrifice, are also important. We all know that really smart kid who got a few Cs because he partied too hard or was distracted by other things.

Of course, there is a correlation with SATs and college grades, but it is not the be all and end all. Also, SATs tend to measure one type of intelligence. As learning becomes more than memorization as college goes on, the speedy responses valued by the SATs become less relevant to the mastery of the material.
As I said, the higher ability helps. Your argument is going against the infamous idea here that you want your kid to be in the upper 25% of a college class or even top 10-15%. That's not necessarily my thing, you're misleading folks to suggest that a 1250 at Middlebury is not gonna be a stretch in pre-med classes with 1500-1550s.
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  #634  
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'Commitment to health care' -- I know a little bit about this and how they determine who is the real deal and who isn't.

Actually not sure what your point is. It's not easy to get in and you have to have the stats and also multiple other factors. Being an athlete is a plus, but it's not the only plus, and you need multiple pluses.
Sorry for not being clearer. I was responding to someone who quoted a post of mine. I was disagreeing with the poster's point that:

"And volunteerism is a very concrete thing. They are basically essential."

My point was that "volunteerism" by itself is not a requirement for med school. but, in the context of a health care setting can "check the box" towards showing one's commitment to health care.
..................

I agree with you that it is not easy to get into med school.

I agree with you that you need to have the stats.

But, having the stats to get into the mix does not necessarily get you in.

My bigger point was that once you have the minimum stats (say 30 and 3.7 in both science and overall GPA) something like being a varsity athlete can get you over the goal line. It can be more than just a tie breaker.
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  #635  
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As I said, the higher ability helps. Your argument is going against the infamous idea here that you want your kid to be in the upper 25% of a college class or even top 10-15%. That's not necessarily my thing, you're misleading folks to suggest that a 1250 at Middlebury is not gonna be a stretch in pre-med classes with 1500-1550s.
That is not what I am saying. Just saying that SATs are not everything. I also think that a 1250 SAT kid has enough basic intelligence to be able to become a physician. (Probably will not get a ROAD residency though, because of the correlation on the Steps)

By the way, The average SAT score composite at Middlebury is a 1420 on the 1600 SAT scale, according to prepscholar.
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  #636  
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Why student-athletes?
In 2012, researchers at the Washington University School of Medicine in St. Louis published the results of a retrospective study looking at which candidates admitted to their otolaryngology residency program turned into the most successful clinicians as ranked by faculty. At first, they were looking to see whether such objective measures as USMLE test scores, grades, and letters of recommendation correlated with higher faculty ratings. (Faculty ratings take into account practice-based learning, interpersonal and communication skills, good judgement, empathy, patient care, and medical knowledge.) What they found, instead, was that those who got the highest faculty ratings were those with an “established excellence in a team sport.”

While the researchers cautioned that not all residency program directors should rush to look for student-athletes, the study did isolate two traits of student-athletes that might translate into success in medicine: time management skills and teamwork.

Indeed, it’s not specific athletic skills that matter, says M. Roy Wilson, MD, president of Wayne State University and former chair of the AAMC Board of Directors, but the ability to juggle sport and academic responsibilities and excel at both. “Learning how to manage time efficiently is critical, and the main complaint that medical students have is just the volume of material they have to digest.”

“So much of medicine is really about personality, or the ability to deal with people effectively and the ability to lead people. Those are characteristics we see in student-athletes who have been successful in team or individual sports.”

Atul Grover, MD, PhD
AAMC Executive Vice President

Student-athletes also know how to function as a member of a team in ways other students may not. “Increasingly health care is a team sport. You have to be able to get along with and work with other health care professionals. You have to round on patients and people from other disciplines who come from other perspectives,” says Wilson. “It’s important to take their perspectives into account and to synthesize all of that in a way that benefits the patients.”

Athletes also prove to be leaders in the workforce, especially women, who last year made up the majority of both applicants and enrollees in medical school but currently represent just a fraction of department chairs and medical school deans, according to AAMC data.

A 2015 study conducted by espnW and EY found that 80% of female Fortune 500 executives played competitive sports at some time in their lives, and that 65% of those on the 2017 Fortune List of Most Powerful Women played sports competitively in either high school, college, or both.

“So much of medicine is really about personality, or the ability to deal with people effectively and the ability to lead people,” says Atul Grover, MD, PhD, executive vice president of the AAMC. “Those are characteristics we see in student-athletes who have been successful in team or individual sports.”

Making this connection also presents another option for student-athletes, who in general have higher graduation rates and GPAs than non–student-athletes, according to the NCAA. While many associate college athletics with sports like football and basketball, the reality is that just 1% of student-athletes go on to play professional sports. “We train people to be professionals for life but haven’t really looked at medicine per say until very recently,” says Hainline.
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  #637  
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Sorry, link for the article:

https://www.aamc.org/news-insights/d...e-good-doctors

One interesting quote:

"Athletes also prove to be leaders in the workforce, especially women, who last year made up the majority of both applicants and enrollees in medical school"
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  #638  
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As I said, the higher ability helps. Your argument is going against the infamous idea here that you want your kid to be in the upper 25% of a college class or even top 10-15%. That's not necessarily my thing, you're misleading folks to suggest that a 1250 at Middlebury is not gonna be a stretch in pre-med classes with 1500-1550s.
Correct. The 1250 athlete won’t do as well as the 1400+ athlete or plain 1400+ student in schoolwork. Add the time commitments of D1 athletes and it’s wven tougher to compete. There are a few that can do it (and D1 athletes are given lots of academic assistance to help them out) but the majority of D1 athletes aren’t going to med school...though many study easier majors like Exorcise Science, Communications, and such. Compare that to the majors of the soccer team at MIT, Johns Hopkins, or Williams and such.
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  #639  
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That is not what I am saying. Just saying that SATs are not everything. I also think that a 1250 SAT kid has enough basic intelligence to be able to become a physician. (Probably will not get a ROAD residency though, because of the correlation on the Steps)

By the way, The average SAT score composite at Middlebury is a 1420 on the 1600 SAT scale, according to prepscholar.
not the poster - true, and it also depends on where the student's strengths are. I know many kids who excel in STEM but suck in English. That can pull down their total scores. The opposite can be true as well (including one of mine who excels in science and English but not math). Passion for medicine matters too. A good friend from college always wanted to be a doctor but struggled is some classes and switched to a business major. Quickly out of school he hated business. He took a bunch of night classes in pre med requirements and applied to dozens of med schools. Got into one and went there. He has a thriving practice and is a caring doctor. Some doctors being churned out by med schools are robots with little personality or compassion for their patients.
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  #640  
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As I said, the higher ability helps. Your argument is going against the infamous idea here that you want your kid to be in the upper 25% of a college class or even top 10-15%. That's not necessarily my thing, you're misleading folks to suggest that a 1250 at Middlebury is not gonna be a stretch in pre-med classes with 1500-1550s.
It doesn’t matter whether it is soccer or academics, it’s all about targeting that place where your kid is the big fish in the small pond. It is that spot where your kid literally is in the top 10% of whatever grouping we are looking at. That is where not only the money is going to be but also the likelihood of success is the greatest. The thing is the size of the actual pond is all relative to the amount of talent. That’s why the kid who graduates in the top 10% at a **** little school in the arse end of nowhere like Miiddlebury has a shot at getting into Med School while kids in the middle of the pack at Harvard usually have a harder time.
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