Girls, you may not need High School??

[Unregistered]

It matters who is posting and why because the motive here has nothing to do with high school soccer. It is just another angle and yet another thread in BTDT's manic frenzy. He has been creating threads and turning any others he can into 100% Stars bashing. This will sound laughable because it's no different any other day, but he has really overplayed his hand. Even his best goons can't defend him now. Totally out of control and completely transparent. BTW, since when is a "newbie" clued in enough to actually refer to "herself" as a "newbie." And haven't we seen this "this is my 3rd and last post and then I'm out of here" deal before??? The guy has just gone completely off the rails. There is no way he will be able t hang on to that scholarship for another 2 years. He has some self-sabotage compulsion that just keeps getting the best of him.

Stars seems to have a position on the comparative value of playing HS soccer for the players on their top teams. They've communicated it to the teams, and the majority of players have chosen to play HS, including most of the rising U15 team. Many of the Stars players and their parents listened to the rationale for 11 month training, and it could not top the value of playing for their town, with their friends and siblings, etc. And this is on a team that is easily the closest-knit group of players that I've seen in 15 years of youth sports. They will miss being together as a unit for the next 3 months, but they will be fine when they're back together in November.

So, to those of you that have begun to be somewhat swayed by the NEFC pitch that Stars will not allow players to play HS or that those that do will be punished, ignore the noise and make decisions based on truly relevant factors. The "no-high school" spiel is just one of many marketing angles that NEFC employs to try to gain ground on Stars.

-Not P.

[Unregistered]

I know 2 players who's parents were talked into it last year. And it appears that the "encouragement" is stronger this year.

A lot depends upon how weak the high school program is. At a small town where the coach is a moonlighting English teacher and most of the players have never played beyond a Rec league level, the argument FOR playing high school soccer gets pretty weak. The frustration level is much higher, and the social benefits can disappear pretty quickly if the team is terrible and no one in town knows or cares that they exist. I don't blame those kids for deciding to train with their club friends with coaches whose knowledge they respect. Each circumstance is different.

[Unregistered]

Stars seems to have a position on the comparative value of playing HS soccer for the players on their top teams. They've communicated it to the teams, and the majority of players have chosen to play HS, including most of the rising U15 team. Many of the Stars players and their parents listened to the rationale for 11 month training, and it could not top the value of playing for their town, with their friends and siblings, etc. And this is on a team that is easily the closest-knit group of players that I've seen in 15 years of youth sports. They will miss being together as a unit for the next 3 months, but they will be fine when they're back together in November.

So, to those of you that have begun to be somewhat swayed by the NEFC pitch that Stars will not allow players to play HS or that those that do will be punished, ignore the noise and make decisions based on truly relevant factors. The "no-high school" spiel is just one of many marketing angles that NEFC employs to try to gain ground on Stars.

-Not P.

Thank you for bringing a little rationality and truth to the discussion. It is just another angle. The problem for BTDT is that he gets a little too excited when he thinks he is gaining a little traction and then gets too many angles running at too frenetic a pace and too close together that eventually even the non-"sleuths" catch on to his game. It really is disgusting and classless, and apparently he actually wants everyone to palpably feel his hatred and know where he stands. Why he believes this is in his interest, and more importantly, in his kids' interests, is beyond me.

I've argued many times about he value of high school play. It is a shame when kids are being prevented from playing (DAP) or discouraged if that is in fact the case by clubs like Stars. I understand the argument, and for true NT or NP players I think a legitimate argument can be made. Even many D1 players will not experience the thrill in college that is available to at least some of them in high school. Many will not be the featured players in college and many will play for college teams that will never make a deep tournament run. Unfortunately, this thread was never about a real discussion about the relative merits and value of high school participation. It was just about further Stars bashing, and unfortunately, the whole site has been manipulated and co-opted into the mission of Stars bashing.

[Unregistered]

oh awesome goodie-goodie..i am so excited..another stars vs nefc thread yahoo!

[Unregistered]

oh awesome goodie-goodie..i am so excited..another stars vs nefc thread yahoo!

no doubt it's going to go on for he rest of the summer until the HS threads start up and then morphs into Gonk vs. whoever the other loudest mouth on this site is.

[Unregistered]

Every time I read this title I expect a post like

"Just find a dreamy guy, get married and have some kids"

[Unregistered]

So sad that it goes that way.

Regarding this topic, I spoke to a few DI coaches recently about it and what they thought at a camp we were working at together. None (out of 3) believe it is a good thing right now. No games, no precedent, no support locally, just one club (so far) that is pushing it. Surprisingly they also felt that the mere social part of high school soccer was something that was important in terms of their overall development and identity - not as a soccer player, but as a young person. One brought up this point - imagine you are a soccer player at a high school, you have played for your first two years and as a junior sit out because your club encouraged it. So now on game day when everyone else in school is buzzing about the big game coming up, wearing their uniform to school, maybe even getting to the state finals...you are watching and thinking "well at least I get to PRACTICE for a team I PAY to play on today"?

And I am not a Stars basher, we recruit their players and appreciate the relationship with them as a club. But this move is not one that seems in the best interest of players, it seems to be in the best interest of club coffers.

Basically spot on, except for being diplomatic about it. If your club tells you to not play a high school sport (soccer or otherwise), they don't have your best interest at heart, just your wallet.

[Unregistered]

Basically spot on, except for being diplomatic about it. If your club tells you to not play a high school sport (soccer or otherwise), they don't have your best interest at heart, just your wallet.

Who gets more boys-girls that play high school soccer or ones who just play club all year? Of course, we realize that playing all year club soccer can open other avenues for the ladies...

[Unregistered]

Get rid of HS and just play club is the best idea. Better training, better games and better coaches!

[beentheredonethat]

I always find it so amusing how I can go away from TS and come back to find myself so deeply involved in so many discussions. I can literally be away for hours, days and even weeks at a clip and still come back to find myself the center of controversy in threads I didn't even know existed. This is one of those situations.

For the record, I don't have a problem with the idea of some girls skipping high school soccer nor do I see a problem with a club like the Stars suggesting it. Now, I might look at a few of the parents as being a little shortsighted for over reaching and having their daughter skip what may be the high point of their soccer career and I might also question the specifics of the particular program the club is putting in place to replace the high school training environment but I actually see the idea as a positive step forward on the girls side.

It is no secret that I think the whole environment on the girl's side is broken. What we are seeing is that because we have so many leagues and teams out there now that the competitive environment is very diluted and that the business side of club soccer dictates far more than it should in terms of team agenda and player placement. What we have found is it is very hard to find the right mix of training rigor and competitive games packaged in one specific place which is why my daughter has been involved in so many other programs like ODP and the WPSL. Suffice to say, we have found that it is very difficult to piece this all together and in the end what we have ended up with is hardly the most efficient means to the end my daughter is are seeking.

For the real high end player, a program like DAP is very attractive. It is a highly controlled environment where the players get their training supervised 6 days a week for ten months out of the year and, at least from the outside, it appears that there are less artificial boundaries like age restrictions holding players below their optimal playing level. DAP is really a total immersion into soccer that replicates the sort of training environment a player will find in a professional soccer club and certainly at the higher levels of the college game. The problem on the girl's side is there is nothing even close to resembling DAP that I have seen that is out there. As a parent, the primary concern that I would have if our club suggested my daughter skip playing for her high school would be what are they going to put in place to offset the amount of training she would be giving up. My personal opinion is 2-3 club training sessions a week is not even an even swap, never mind an upgrade, for all the benefits a kid typically gets from playing for their high school team.

One issue that we always look at with respect to these types of personal decisions is whether the "juice is worth the squeeze". By that I mean whether the sacrifices are actually going to be commensurate with the rewards. I think that as adults most of us recognize that there is always a price to paid for whatever we want in life. What I have found is that typically when most of us make a major purchase in life we use this same sort of cost to value equation in our decision making process but yet for some reason when it comes to making decision like this to hold our child out of high school sports some of us seem to want to throw logic completely out the window. I have just seen that there is a group of parents out there that will go from being careful consumers to wild eyed optimists willing to pay any price just so they can acquire their goal. They push for these sorts of things when it really doesn't make sense based upon the actual path their child is on.

The big question that I see is who is really going to benefit from completely immersing their child into soccer? When you put that question into a historical context, you are going to realize that there are probably only a half dozen youth players at any one time in this state across all the high school age groups who have any legitimate shot what so ever at making money at the pro level of soccer, and even less at making the national level and earning fame. From where I sit those are really the only ones who might want to consider this sort of thing. Even with those players, I not so sure that the rewards are really there to justify the price that will have been paid. Truth be told there are other ways to get to the same spot without paying this price. My personal opinion is that when you start dropping down competitive levels that cost to value balance really starts to get out of whack so this sort of proposition stops making much sense.

In the end though I see this is as a personal decision that everyone has to make based upon their individual family values and goals. I certainly don't fault the Stars for making it available because they are a business and I do believe there are families that will take advantage of this sort of thing. The only thing I would say to them is just don't make their program out to be more than it is. All that we are really talking about is immersing in soccer training in order to become the best soccer player one can be. Not that the Stars are claiming this, but one thing total immersion is not going to be is a magic pill for generating soccer scholarships. The talent to earn a scholarship is either there or it is not there, this would simply solidify what is already there. My advice would be to anyone who is thinking that by totally immersing their child in soccer that they might increase their chances of earning a soccer scholarship that they might want to carefully assess just where their child might be heading before they jump in. Sacrificing your child's high school experience for a pipe dream would be a very high price to pay.

[Unregistered]

The comment I found worth highlighting most of all: "there is a group of parents out there that will go from being careful consumers to wild eyed optimists willing to pay any price just so they can acquire their goal. They push for these sorts of things when it really doesn't make sense based upon the actual path their child is on."

Because it is so applicable to a number of circumstances across youth sports outside of this particular question.

[Unregistered]

BTDT, welcome back. How long have you been away from the site?

[Unregistered]

BTDT, welcome back. How long have you been away from the site?

does it matter?

[Unregistered]

does it matter?

Yes, it does. There are several threads, including this one, where he allegedly has featured very prominently, so if literally none of the posts in any of these threads the last few days are his then I think the viewership should know that. And if he actually hasn't been posting in these threads the past few days, then I think P and others should be severely sanctioned. And this is P.

[beentheredonethat]

You and a couple of others routinely make gross over estimates of my involvement here. The reason why I logged in today is I have some time today to actually post some of my thoughts and I wanted to specifically address the notion that I was involved in this discussion by going on the record so to speak with how I actually feel about the subject. I didn't start this thread nor did I post anything anonymously in it prior to my post. I wonder if you will actually take that step back to examine some of your claims about me or if you will simply do what you normally do and call me liar.