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    #31
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Why aren’t the clubs letting their players know the payoffs are usually so low?
    Please tell me you aren't kidding?

    If parents knew the true likelihood of any kid of payoff they'd go back to Park and Rec soccer (or baseball or whatever) ASAP. No way the clubs are going to give them a dose of reality - the number of clubs would shrink in half overnight.

    No one should be doing this for $ but the love of the game. Some do it for the prestige/bragging rights. Some do it because they at least hope being a recruited athlete will get them into a better school (without paying bribes lol). Some do it because they expect at payout. It's the third group that is disappointed the most often.

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      #32
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      Why aren’t the clubs letting their players know the payoffs are usually so low?
      Any parent who is so foolish to blindly believe what any other adult is telling them, without fact checking on their own, is an idiot. The salary information for professional soccer players is public information. There have been articles written about NWSL players living in poverty and relying on the kindness of people such as Jeff Van Gundy to not be homeless. You have to have your head buried in the sand up to your shoulders to not be aware of this.

      It is not the club's responsibility to educate you. It's your responsibility to educate yourself.

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        Any parent who is so foolish to blindly believe what any other adult is telling them, without fact checking on their own, is an idiot. The salary information for professional soccer players is public information. There have been articles written about NWSL players living in poverty and relying on the kindness of people such as Jeff Van Gundy to not be homeless. You have to have your head buried in the sand up to your shoulders to not be aware of this.

        It is not the club's responsibility to educate you. It's your responsibility to educate yourself.
        I know that but it seem like many parents are led to believe their little Suzie is one of the special ones. There are still many who think their little Suzie will play for the Thorns senior team and then on the USWNT and they are mortgaging the farm to help her live her dream like the little Nike girl.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Any parent who is so foolish to blindly believe what any other adult is telling them, without fact checking on their own, is an idiot. The salary information for professional soccer players is public information. There have been articles written about NWSL players living in poverty and relying on the kindness of people such as Jeff Van Gundy to not be homeless. You have to have your head buried in the sand up to your shoulders to not be aware of this.

          It is not the club's responsibility to educate you. It's your responsibility to educate yourself.
          What is the value of getting into good school with the help of soccer?

          We are already seeing in the news this week about wealthy families paying big bucks pretending to be sport recruits to gain admission into prestigious schools.

          You need to win a lottery to make a career out women's soccer. That is not the case for using soccer to help you get into a good academic school. Work hard in school and sports. If you are a female, the sports may end up helping you get access to a top school. Participating in college athletics can't hurt your future outside of soccer career prospects either.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Why aren’t the clubs letting their players know the payoffs are usually so low?
            You have to be really stupid to not know. People talk about this stuff all the time. I assume that you are playing a team sport and people have conversations.

            If you are struggling to make ends meet then you probably shouldn't do expensive travel soccer.

            Just like if you can't afford a 4 year college right away then maybe live at home and go to PCC the first 2 years and then transfer. Your degree from the 4 year colleges will look the same. Your experiences may be different... not necessarily better or worse, but different.

            Comment


              #36
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              I know that but it seem like many parents are led to believe their little Suzie is one of the special ones. There are still many who think their little Suzie will play for the Thorns senior team and then on the USWNT and they are mortgaging the farm to help her live her dream like the little Nike girl.
              It’s all about the money for the clubs. The parents and the girls themselves are ultimately to blame but the clubs are happy to take the parent’s money and encourage the dream. It’s good to dream but buyer beware. Realistically, local rec soccer and more studying would be a better path for 80% of club players. The other 20% can find somewhere to play in college. That somewhere will likely be a low level soccer and lower academic college. Most players figure it out by sophomore or junior year and pick to stick it out or quit soccer and move on. We are all responsible for our choices. Make the best choice for you and enjoy.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Please tell me you aren't kidding?

                If parents knew the true likelihood of any kid of payoff they'd go back to Park and Rec soccer (or baseball or whatever) ASAP. No way the clubs are going to give them a dose of reality - the number of clubs would shrink in half overnight.

                No one should be doing this for $ but the love of the game. Some do it for the prestige/bragging rights. Some do it because they at least hope being a recruited athlete will get them into a better school (without paying bribes lol). Some do it because they expect at payout. It's the third group that is disappointed the most often.
                I would suspect there are also many girls that end up at worse colleges due to chasing the college soccer dream. 1st, although Little Suzie spent thousands per year on club fees, showcases, private’s, and the usual...she still isn’t a very good soccer player and can only get onto a low level team at a low level college. She takes it because her parents can’t bear the thought of her not playing soccer in college at a better academic school she might be able to get into. The funny thing is that the recent scandal used women’s soccer teams because no one but the girls parents care about the soccer team so no one would notice. If little Suzie had spent even a few of all those hours and hours training and playing soccer on studying instead, her SAT scores would be better and she could get into a better school. Straight As are super easy to get at most Oregon public high schools but SATs are a bit harder. Unless you cheat or fake a learning disability! So, if Suzie is crazy for soccer pay for her to play and have fun but don’t be deluded into thinking it’ll be any kind of ROI athletically or academically for any but the rare cases in Oregon. It is good exercise and a fun game to play so that’s good enough of a reason to play the game.

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                  #38
                  The ROI includes experiences and lifelong friendships.

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    I would suspect there are also many girls that end up at worse colleges due to chasing the college soccer dream. 1st, although Little Suzie spent thousands per year on club fees, showcases, private’s, and the usual...she still isn’t a very good soccer player and can only get onto a low level team at a low level college. She takes it because her parents can’t bear the thought of her not playing soccer in college at a better academic school she might be able to get into. The funny thing is that the recent scandal used women’s soccer teams because no one but the girls parents care about the soccer team so no one would notice. If little Suzie had spent even a few of all those hours and hours training and playing soccer on studying instead, her SAT scores would be better and she could get into a better school. Straight As are super easy to get at most Oregon public high schools but SATs are a bit harder. Unless you cheat or fake a learning disability! So, if Suzie is crazy for soccer pay for her to play and have fun but don’t be deluded into thinking it’ll be any kind of ROI athletically or academically for any but the rare cases in Oregon. It is good exercise and a fun game to play so that’s good enough of a reason to play the game.
                    OP here - yes that is another aspect some parents don't realize until it's too late, and that is the importance of good grades. Boys especially get hammered because they tend to be later bloomers in the grade department. They finally realize half way through junior year their grades aren't good enough for the schools they want and are scrambling to pull them up. Money is better spent on tutors and test prep

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      ECNL = college track
                      OYSA travel team = college track
                      Thorns = pro track

                      Trying to bash thorns for not getting college placements is ridiculous. They aren't in this for that. The goal is to get girls on the bench for the big girl team. And possible get a paycheck.
                      Yeah, and look at all the Thornz Asylum graduates playing in the pro leagues - ZERO

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        I would suspect there are also many girls that end up at worse colleges due to chasing the college soccer dream. 1st, although Little Suzie spent thousands per year on club fees, showcases, private’s, and the usual...she still isn’t a very good soccer player and can only get onto a low level team at a low level college. She takes it because her parents can’t bear the thought of her not playing soccer in college at a better academic school she might be able to get into. The funny thing is that the recent scandal used women’s soccer teams because no one but the girls parents care about the soccer team so no one would notice. If little Suzie had spent even a few of all those hours and hours training and playing soccer on studying instead, her SAT scores would be better and she could get into a better school. Straight As are super easy to get at most Oregon public high schools but SATs are a bit harder. Unless you cheat or fake a learning disability! So, if Suzie is crazy for soccer pay for her to play and have fun but don’t be deluded into thinking it’ll be any kind of ROI athletically or academically for any but the rare cases in Oregon. It is good exercise and a fun game to play so that’s good enough of a reason to play the game.
                        If you are going to use the recently scandal then you should use it the correct context.

                        Colleges have sports programs and being an athlete can help you get admitted into a school.

                        Getting straight A's may be super easy in your household, but not for others. Similarly it sounds like athletics may be a challenge for your family, but easier for others.

                        Just like a job career, you want to do something that you like and have fun, but that does not mean you should have a goal for a payout.

                        It is okay to have fun, work hard, and have goals. These are not mutually exclusive events. Some kids have a goal of just making a HS team. Some kids want to make a club "A" team. Some kids work to win a state championship. And some kids have a goal to play college soccer. Is it hard work and require commitment? Yes, but that does not mean it cannot be fun and rewarding.

                        Title 9 does give girls more opportunities to pursue college thru sports. It is not unrealistic for girls in Oregon to move on to play college soccer. You do have to be realistic at what level you can play at as well as your academic level.

                        In my experience, most higher level female soccer players are also very good students. Good soccer and good academics are not mutually exclusive events.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          Some Captain Obvious points:

                          If you’re not getting straight As in public Oregon schools then your only hope is lower academic colleges anyway and there are plenty of those, many with good soccer programs. Statistically, it simply isn’t very difficult to get straight As at public schools in Oregon. The number of straight A (or close to it) student athletes is similarly exceptionally high. A much lower percentage of those straight A students achieve high scores on the SATs. This is why almost all colleges ask for both grades and scores. Also why rich people cheat and buy higher SAT scores and fake learning disabilities to game the exams (their kids already have straight As like a million other kids but their SATs are too low). Elite academic colleges also adjust GPAs based on the history of the high school’s overall difficulty in getting As as well as the difficulty of classes taken (AP, etc).

                          Soccer ability level is a separate and completely different metric. You have super smart, smart, average and below average students. Similarly there are super skilled, skilled, average and below average soccer playing students. If your child is both super smart & super at soccer, congratulations, you don’t need to buy your way into Stanford or Georgetown. However, if you are super rich as well, all the better and your child is set before they start. If your child is either super smart or super at soccer, congratulations: some accommodations will be made on the other weaker side but ultimate level will depend on how weak the other side is. The highest number of players are probably average on both fronts and will end up at an average school with average soccer. Nothing wrong with that and that is the boat with the most players in it.

                          Many good players do choose a weaker academic school than they could go to academically in order to go to a school where they can make the soccer roster. Many other players choose to do the opposite. It’s a personal choice. The former gets the joy of playing the sport they love in college and the later gets a better education and degree. Life always has trade offs. Pick whatever path you like better.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Some Captain Obvious points:

                            If you’re not getting straight A’s in public Oregon schools then your only hope is lower academic colleges anyway and there are plenty of those, many with good soccer programs. Statistically, it simply isn’t very difficult to get straight As at public schools in Oregon. The number of straight A (or close to it) student athletes is similarly exceptionally high. A much lower percentage of those straight A students achieve high scores on the SATs. This is why almost all colleges ask for both grades and scores. Also why rich people cheat and buy higher SAT scores and fake learning disabilities to game the exams (their kids already have straight As like a million other kids but their SATs are too low). Elite academic colleges also adjust GPAs based on the history of the high school’s overall difficulty in getting As as well as the difficulty of classes taken (AP, etc).

                            Soccer ability level is a separate and completely different metric. You have super smart, smart, average and below average students. Similarly there are super skilled, skilled, average and below average soccer playing students. If your child is both super smart & super at soccer, congratulations, you don’t need to buy your way into Stanford or Georgetown. However, if you are super rich as well, all the better and your child is set before they start. If your child is either super smart or super at soccer, congratulations: some accommodations will be made on the other weaker side but ultimate level will depend on how weak the other side is. The highest number of players are probably average on both fronts and will end up at an average school with average soccer. Nothing wrong with that and that is the boat with the most players in it.

                            Many good players do choose a weaker academic school than they could go to academically in order to go to a school where they can make the soccer roster. Many other players choose to do the opposite. It’s a personal choice. The former gets the joy of playing the sport they love in college and the later gets a better education and degree. Life always has trade offs. Pick whatever path you like better.
                            Having hired dozens of successful people in my career, I am here to tell you, where you go to college is low on the performance indicator scale. It’s so much more about grit and emotional IQ than SAT score or which university a person graduated. I would take an average higher functioning (SAT 1100 to 1300) person ANY DAY OF THE WEEK, to be on my team if they demonstrated persistence, reliability, imagination and emotional level headedness. What university someone graduates from might give a matriculated student more benefit of the doubt on securing their first job, but their first 5-10 years of work experience tells a story much more compelling. Smart business people and successful lawyers and doctors, etc. come from all universities. Don’t be fooled. It’s not always what you know, it’s how you good you are at applying wat you do know.

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              Having hired dozens of successful people in my career, I am here to tell you, where you go to college is low on the performance indicator scale. It’s so much more about grit and emotional IQ than SAT score or which university a person graduated. I would take an average higher functioning (SAT 1100 to 1300) person ANY DAY OF THE WEEK, to be on my team if they demonstrated persistence, reliability, imagination and emotional level headedness. What university someone graduates from might give a matriculated student more benefit of the doubt on securing their first job, but their first 5-10 years of work experience tells a story much more compelling. Smart business people and successful lawyers and doctors, etc. come from all universities. Don’t be fooled. It’s not always what you know, it’s how you good you are at applying wat you do know.
                              It also matters what field. In computer programming, nobody gives a crap where you went to school once you have established work experience. In law, OTOH, pedigree is EXTREMELY important (not that it should be); if you don't graduate from an Ivy League law school, certain jobs will simply be unavailable to you, no matter how good a lawyer you might turn out to be.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                It also matters what field. In computer programming, nobody gives a crap where you went to school once you have established work experience. In law, OTOH, pedigree is EXTREMELY important (not that it should be); if you don't graduate from an Ivy League law school, certain jobs will simply be unavailable to you, no matter how good a lawyer you might turn out to be.
                                I agree those “certain jobs” typically reside on the east coast. Same job on the West Coast, Mid West and South, but thes “where did you graduate norm” is not nearly as important va “you have a degree we value”. TG I live on the West Coast!! I will agree though, that “who you know” matters every bit as much or more than “what you know” in securing a good job. Making sure to network and intern and join industry or trade groups is essential, again, whatever university you go to. Some universities are better at proactive connecting a student whereas in other situations, the student must be the aggressor in this area of effort. Back to soccer, send your kid to a school to get a degree they want to use, forgo the debt of a highly touted school, make sure they prioritize networking and they will be more than fine.

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