Is the ECNL going to last?

[Unregistered]

Don't know what to tell you, and I don't know if you think I'm sort of plant for the clubs, one of the 2 main instigators on this board, of someone who is idealistic? Again, my purpose is and was still to read the opinion of others in regards to what is next for the Elite clubs and teams, and in what direction will they go. Will it be on the back of ECNL or an alignment of it with another league, or will they expand and bring in other clubs that have become elite and not yet under the ECNL banner. I also would like to hear others thoughts on whether or not it was the intention of these clubs to rise the level of competing clubs or was it an unintentional plus for the soccer community. I personally think we are in a place that wasn't imagined in the beginning by the ECNL set. They can either bury their head and try to ignore it and remain a private club, or they can use it and really develop the game even further in this country. I don't know if the rumors of a DAP on the girls side is because others see the opportunity, or is a coincidence, but it is going to force the hand of the ECNL. I personally think it would be wise to explore a way to elevate other clubs into ECNL through the meeting of standards and results in other leagues. Imagine that, the U.S. actually defining a model to create a standard for American soccer, and creating the American Way, and how ironic would it be that it comes from the women's side. That's all my end game is, just honest debate. I personally have friendly relationships with the CH, GPS brothers. I also am a fan of what JD has done at Stars and what LB is doing at the Breakers. I am also a Fan of the smaller clubs who have stood the test of time, and respect their ability to stay relevent, and seek change to better their clubs like LL(father) of SSS, and TD/BJ of CSU. I've recruited players from all these clubs and because of that try to be neutral in my support, and make no excuses for how I go about my own way in the soccer world. I hope all succeed, because that means they are producing better players, and that ultimately grows the game in the US, and for me that has been what I support, and have dedicated my time and energies toward. I also think that because of the path I've chosen, I get to see what every club does well and does poorly. Just like my thoughts on ECNL and the other leagues, these clubs could benefit from the sharing of information on methods of organization and development from age 5-25. That's it, and to be honest I've spent way to much time today having to explain why I started this post. If you don't like it, or think it's to spread some kind of anti anything propaganda, I won't be able to change your mind. You will see shadows at every turn, and that is not why I come on here.

Let's presume for a minute (hard to do because it's not true) that you really are someone else. In other words, we'll give you the benefit of the doubt (while you strategically wait an hour before responding so it doesn't look too obvious that you're here all the time in the thick of it all).

With that said, you're still completely disingenuous. You're citing the usual agenda-based disagreements, the "two primary psoters," etc and so you are showing yourself to be very much aware of and tuned into the usual TS polemical debates. You then become preoccupied with whether ECNL teams intentionally have an eye for lifting their non-ECNL counterparts. You clearly don't believe that was their intention, which would make no sense anyway as an intention, and you go on to talk about "demises" and all the rest. The say you are interested in just honest debate, which then later someone we know uses as a pitch point for proof of something that doesn't really exist in the first place (as people actually would like honest discussion, and then you go on with some really vague gobbledygook about how you go your own way in the soccer world without telling anything about what that way is. Meanwhile, you completely avoid why you would have been at Jefferson Cup and why or how you orchestrated a very odd, unlikely, and yet very timely for TS summit meeting that just spontaneously took off between a collection of college coaches (from top D1 to the lowest of D3) about "the ECNL issue." And then, by utter coincidence, we see who shows up to follow up on your wonderful contributions. Too, too, too funny.

[Unregistered]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Unregistered]

Let's presume for a minute (hard to do because it's not true) that you really are someone else. In other words, we'll give you the benefit of the doubt (while you strategically wait an hour before responding so it doesn't look too obvious that you're here all the time in the thick of it all).

With that said, you're still completely disingenuous. You're citing the usual agenda-based disagreements, the "two primary psoters," etc and so you are showing yourself to be very much aware of and tuned into the usual TS polemical debates. You then become preoccupied with whether ECNL teams intentionally have an eye for lifting their non-ECNL counterparts. You clearly don't believe that was their intention, which would make no sense anyway as an intention, and you go on to talk about "demises" and all the rest. The say you are interested in just honest debate, which then later someone we know uses as a pitch point for proof of something that doesn't really exist in the first place (as people actually would like honest discussion, and then you go on with some really vague gobbledygook about how you go your own way in the soccer world without telling anything about what that way is. Meanwhile, you completely avoid why you would have been at Jefferson Cup and why or how you orchestrated a very odd, unlikely, and yet very timely for TS summit meeting that just spontaneously took off between a collection of college coaches (from top D1 to the lowest of D3) about "the ECNL issue." And then, by utter coincidence, we see who shows up to follow up on your wonderful contributions. Too, too, too funny.

rather than dissect the 'what's the motive' or 'will it last' how about instead the 'how will it evolve with the influx of other leagues such as NPL, National, etc into relavance' and aside from the dilution argument, soccer or the ecnl is not going away.

as an example, 'super Y' a Bradly Brothers brainchild I believe just as NEP was another was created with purpose as a summer league (and you can’t use $ alone because clearly they do love the game as well as $) - Their NEP has transformed as well as an inlet for teams squeezed from the NYCSL into the NPL (and that said the current Stars U15 ecnl played there in it’s inception year for ½ year) yet NEP has become relevant none the less.

on another front there still are usys leagues in the discussion such as national league (and not saying it’s inexpensive) and consider that path as one for the small players such as SSS who just made a showing in Vegas or little Abby Villa here in mass entering into Super Y this coming summer as a path for those kids who’d never get any exposure (and might not care to) and in a season where many choose expensive college id camps as another alternative and as a ‘post college’ extension of the game for those interested in the super 20’s program.

Seems more than anything else the competitive structure of youth soccer while in current dilution during rapid expansion will bring higher level regional competition to the forefront for many tiers in the years to come and as long as players and money pour in it’s not hurting the sport.

If you guys are so informed then spill your collective guts for the masses and paint the whole evolution picture rather than just this us v them rhetoric owlishly centered around a few teams with entitled kids playing extremely expensive cost per game soccer (and they are entitled don’t argue that)...
Lol – soccer parents…

[Unregistered]

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

I second this. After just four weeks of reading this constant banter go by, I'm completely bored of TS. Can't believe some of you have been doing this for 8+ years. Wasn't someone on here mentioning something being a waste of time and energy. Good-bye TS. Let me know when BTDT and Perspective's kids are out of the youth soccer system, and I'll check back in then, though it's very possible they may still be creeping around on here long after their kids have graduated, followed by a new onslaught of insanity as soon as their grandchildren hit U6 (let's all pray for boys, so ECNL won't remain an issue).

[Unregistered]

Let's presume for a minute (hard to do because it's not true) that you really are someone else. In other words, we'll give you the benefit of the doubt (while you strategically wait an hour before responding so it doesn't look too obvious that you're here all the time in the thick of it all).

With that said, you're still completely disingenuous. You're citing the usual agenda-based disagreements, the "two primary psoters," etc and so you are showing yourself to be very much aware of and tuned into the usual TS polemical debates. You then become preoccupied with whether ECNL teams intentionally have an eye for lifting their non-ECNL counterparts. You clearly don't believe that was their intention, which would make no sense anyway as an intention, and you go on to talk about "demises" and all the rest. The say you are interested in just honest debate, which then later someone we know uses as a pitch point for proof of something that doesn't really exist in the first place (as people actually would like honest discussion, and then you go on with some really vague gobbledygook about how you go your own way in the soccer world without telling anything about what that way is. Meanwhile, you completely avoid why you would have been at Jefferson Cup and why or how you orchestrated a very odd, unlikely, and yet very timely for TS summit meeting that just spontaneously took off between a collection of college coaches (from top D1 to the lowest of D3) about "the ECNL issue." And then, by utter coincidence, we see who shows up to follow up on your wonderful contributions. Too, too, too funny.

Who can BTDT imagine is taking the time and energy to read through his transparently lying, convoluted, densely formatted nonsense--apart from you? Certainly not anyone new to town and just trying to sort through the gale-force winds sweeping through this turbulent landscape, who could sure use the guidance of an experienced, generous soul, lest their family fall under the spell of snake oil salesmen lurking in every suburb to peddle fraudulent dreams of elite girls' soccer success.

[Unregistered]

I second this. After just four weeks of reading this constant banter go by, I'm completely bored of TS. Can't believe some of you have been doing this for 8+ years. Wasn't someone on here mentioning something being a waste of time and energy. Good-bye TS....

And yet, here you were, on Saturday morning, completely bored enough to check in...to sign off.

We hardly knew ye--but, alas, you're already gone. You, whoever you are, will be missed.

[Unregistered]

I second this. After just four weeks of reading this constant banter go by, I'm completely bored of TS. Can't believe some of you have been doing this for 8+ years. Wasn't someone on here mentioning something being a waste of time and energy. Good-bye TS. Let me know when BTDT and Perspective's kids are out of the youth soccer system, and I'll check back in then, though it's very possible they may still be creeping around on here long after their kids have graduated, followed by a new onslaught of insanity as soon as their grandchildren hit U6 (let's all pray for boys, so ECNL won't remain an issue).

Girls are so much easier when it comes to youth soccer. With a talented boy you could have that misguided dream of a pro career (although you would never admit it). With a girl, if you are paying any attention at all, you quickly dispense with any such notions. The stakes are really quite low so any decision you make will be fine. And in Mass there are enough options available that with a little effort a satisfactory (not perfect, never perfect) solution can be found.

[Unregistered]

Girls are so much easier when it comes to youth soccer. With a talented boy you could have that misguided dream of a pro career (although you would never admit it). With a girl, if you are paying any attention at all, you quickly dispense with any such notions. The stakes are really quite low so any decision you make will be fine. And in Mass there are enough options available that with a little effort a satisfactory (not perfect, never perfect) solution can be found.

LOL. Talk about a face saving pov. Guess the Breakers don't exist. Guess Lindsey Horan didn't get 6 figures at 17 to skip college and go play in France. Just because so many of these blow hards had kids who were even close enough to being good enough now women's soccer doesn't make sense at all. Wonder why they even bother supporting the ECNL?

[Unregistered]

Girls are so much easier when it comes to youth soccer. With a talented boy you could have that misguided dream of a pro career (although you would never admit it). With a girl, if you are paying any attention at all, you quickly dispense with any such notions. The stakes are really quite low so any decision you make will be fine. And in Mass there are enough options available that with a little effort a satisfactory (not perfect, never perfect) solution can be found.

Stop making sense. You're only provoking more hissy fits from BTNT.

[Unregistered]

Fit for Europe? Yes. U.S.? Maybe: Lindsey Horan Could Miss Women’s World Cup While Sh

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/17/sp...team.html?_r=0

The world of women's soccer is vastly different than what generally gets passed off as fact here. There is no question that women's pro soccer is behind men's pro soccer in terms of stability and certainly pay rates but that is changing rapidly. Unlike the men, US women are viewed as the cream of the crop (the inverse of the men's situation where international players are top dog) and as a result there are actually lots of opportunities for them. The truth is there are quite a few women with local ties playing professionally both domestically and abroad and that number may actually exceed the number of local men playing professionally.

While the size of the contracts may not be equal, the way the money works in soccer is not all that different from the way it works in other professional sports. The superstars make all the money while the rank and file play for amounts near the minimum. The secret behind all pro sports though is most athletes don't make their money from their playing contracts, they make it from appearance fees and endorsement deals. Another thing to consider is that the average length of a pro sports career is only around 4 years for all sports (NFL 3.5-MLB 5.6) so the idea of a woman playing professionally only a couple of years is hardly unique to soccer.

People who claim that there is no future in soccer are just plain ignorant. The reality of the situation is one has to be an exceptional player to even consider the option and how much they make once there is completely dependent upon how good a pro player they are. It doesn't matter the sport, if they are truly exceptional they will make enough money to be comfortable. Whether or not that is enough to retire on is all based upon the amount of money in the particular sport. That is the one place where women's soccer suffers, there just isn't enough money in the game yet for players to retire on, that doesn't mean though that they can't be comfortable or that their lives are over once they stop playing like some here like to portray.

[Unregistered]

Stop making sense. You're only provoking more hissy fits from BTNT.

Making sense you say? This is just a parent whose child you have to know wasn't good enough to parlay soccer into opportunity for themselves so now they have to put down any player who has better options than there's did. Same type of person who spent all last weekend bashing 15 year old girls. They do this to soothe their ego so who is really having the hissy fit?

[Unregistered]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/17/sp...team.html?_r=0

The world of women's soccer is vastly different than what generally gets passed off as fact here. There is no question that women's pro soccer is behind men's pro soccer in terms of stability and certainly pay rates but that is changing rapidly. Unlike the men, US women are viewed as the cream of the crop (the inverse of the men's situation where international players are top dog) and as a result there are actually lots of opportunities for them. The truth is there are quite a few women with local ties playing professionally both domestically and abroad and that number may actually exceed the number of local men playing professionally.

While the size of the contracts may not be equal, the way the money works in soccer is not all that different from the way it works in other professional sports. The superstars make all the money while the rank and file play for amounts near the minimum. The secret behind all pro sports though is most athletes don't make their money from their playing contracts, they make it from appearance fees and endorsement deals. Another thing to consider is that the average length of a pro sports career is only around 4 years for all sports (NFL 3.5-MLB 5.6) so the idea of a woman playing professionally only a couple of years is hardly unique to soccer.

People who claim that there is no future in soccer are just plain ignorant. The reality of the situation is one has to be an exceptional player to even consider the option and how much they make once there is completely dependent upon how good a pro player they are. It doesn't matter the sport, if they are truly exceptional they will make enough money to be comfortable. Whether or not that is enough to retire on is all based upon the amount of money in the particular sport. That is the one place where women's soccer suffers, there just isn't enough money in the game yet for players to retire on, that doesn't mean though that they can't be comfortable or that their lives are over once they stop playing like some here like to portray.

Thanks, BTDD. This post was timely and will likely substantially alter the decisions of families with kids at this level that you say don't exist (except for yourself). You are doing the right things with this second kid (at least as far as we can tell from TS). There is no one here, and I mean no one, who hopes that her star doesn't continue to shine. We won't begrudge you anything if she goes on to make millions and millions, becomes an endorsement king, and all the rest. Maybe she will be the equivalent of Mia Hamm or Wambach AND an academic neurosurgeon on top of that. The rest of us will continue living our lives exactly as we are living them now.

[Unregistered]

Making sense you say? This is just a parent whose child you have to know wasn't good enough to parlay soccer into opportunity for themselves so now they have to put down any player who has better options than there's did. Same type of person who spent all last weekend bashing 15 year old girls. They do this to soothe their ego so who is really having the hissy fit?

BTDT, what are you still doing here? Remember, you don't post much or often, and so how would you even have an opinion about what happened here regarding any U15 girls? As for the rest, see #42.

[Unregistered]

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/17/sp...team.html?_r=0

The world of women's soccer is vastly different than what generally gets passed off as fact here. There is no question that women's pro soccer is behind men's pro soccer in terms of stability and certainly pay rates but that is changing rapidly. Unlike the men, US women are viewed as the cream of the crop (the inverse of the men's situation where international players are top dog) and as a result there are actually lots of opportunities for them. The truth is there are quite a few women with local ties playing professionally both domestically and abroad and that number may actually exceed the number of local men playing professionally.

While the size of the contracts may not be equal, the way the money works in soccer is not all that different from the way it works in other professional sports. The superstars make all the money while the rank and file play for amounts near the minimum. The secret behind all pro sports though is most athletes don't make their money from their playing contracts, they make it from appearance fees and endorsement deals. Another thing to consider is that the average length of a pro sports career is only around 4 years for all sports (NFL 3.5-MLB 5.6) so the idea of a woman playing professionally only a couple of years is hardly unique to soccer.

People who claim that there is no future in soccer are just plain ignorant. The reality of the situation is one has to be an exceptional player to even consider the option and how much they make once there is completely dependent upon how good a pro player they are. It doesn't matter the sport, if they are truly exceptional they will make enough money to be comfortable. Whether or not that is enough to retire on is all based upon the amount of money in the particular sport. That is the one place where women's soccer suffers, there just isn't enough money in the game yet for players to retire on, that doesn't mean though that they can't be comfortable or that their lives are over once they stop playing like some here like to portray.

The other protagonist in this discussion undoubtedly had a child that soccer didn't provide these types of opportunities to. No doubt one of our D3 champions who always only saw their children applying to grad school after graduation. The problem as they see it is there just aren't a whole lot of players from D3 soccer programs who are good enough to actually go down this path. Even if they are close to being good enough to make a pro team and want to give it a shot they end up looking at the minimum pay levels so of course none of this makes sense. That's their paradigm though, it doesn't mean that it is the only paradigm.

[Unregistered]

Thanks, BTDD. This post was timely and will likely substantially alter the decisions of families with kids at this level that you say don't exist (except for yourself). You are doing the right things with this second kid (at least as far as we can tell from TS). There is no one here, and I mean no one, who hopes that her star doesn't continue to shine. We won't begrudge you anything if she goes on to make millions and millions, becomes an endorsement king, and all the rest. Maybe she will be the equivalent of Mia Hamm or Wambach AND an academic neurosurgeon on top of that. The rest of us will continue living our lives exactly as we are living them now.

Must suck to be so angry. What happen to yours? Injury or just not good enough.