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The "Best Athlete" myth in US Soccer Development

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    #16
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Great article, and the Iniesta example is spot on. For me he is one of top 3-4 players in world.

    Let us be serious here: Would Iniesta have a chance in our NT if he was born in US? What about Marta from Brazil?
    You know the answer and perhaps you also know why our national teams are not that good. Please don't say that if they are skilled and blah blah blah they would make it. There are a lot Iniestas and Martas out there that don't get invited to the NT camps because they:
    1. are not tall and physical.
    2.don't bench press 400 lbs.
    3.are not robotic fast
    4.Can't boot it 100 yds
    5.are poor.
    You aren't looking at the kids being called into the latest national camps. They are not tall, and they would suck as a track team or wrestling team. Emphasis is on technical ability and ability to properly read the game. Big, fast, strong kids are not being invited unless they demonstrate these traits.

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      #17
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      This experiment is already being run on the women's side. Let us see what wins the world cup. Soccer is the preeminent female sport in the US so our best "athletes" are there. Can they triumph over countries with a deeper soccer culture and team selection and training methodology?
      Size 18 pants does not mean athletic, it means bootball.

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        #18
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        Clarify that to wide receivers, running backs, safety's, and cornerbacks from NFL and 1 and 2 guards from NBA and have them from their youth with a decent coach and THEN we compete in the World Cup.
        Yes. Take those athletes and immerse them in soccer from a very young age (and eliminate x-Box, cell phones, and other sports). The immersion is the key. If they live and breathe the game, then their natural athletic abilities (speed & agility, PLUS ball instincts, ingenuity and spatial awareness) would deliver better soccer players than we have now. Taking elite athletes and immersing them in soccer at age 18 or 22 would get us nowhere.

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          #19
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Great article, and the Iniesta example is spot on. For me he is one of top 3-4 players in world.

          Let us be serious here: Would Iniesta have a chance in our NT if he was born in US? What about Marta from Brazil?
          You know the answer and perhaps you also know why our national teams are not that good. Please don't say that if they are skilled and blah blah blah they would make it. There are a lot Iniestas and Martas out there that don't get invited to the NT camps because they:
          1. are not tall and physical.
          2.don't bench press 400 lbs.
          3.are not robotic fast
          4.Can't boot it 100 yds
          5.are poor.
          Iniesta was a top 5 player in 2012 but in 2015? No way he's even remotely close to being in the top 20 players in 2015. He declined very heavily these past two years if you have been paying any attention to football.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Iniesta was a top 5 player in 2012 but in 2015? No way he's even remotely close to being in the top 20 players in 2015. He declined very heavily these past two years if you have been paying any attention to football.
            Team dynamics change with new personnel and new coaches. Iniesta has lost nothing.

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              #21
              The laughable thing about these ever present arguments is they all would have you believe that everywhere in the entire soccer playing world except the United States soccer is played by smallish, unathletic players who found success simply because of their passion for the game and the technical skills that passion developed. That couldn't be further from the truth and shows how completely ignorant some of you are about the game and the world around you. Have some of you actually looked at the bodies of the typical world class soccer player and done the research into their performance metrics? If anything soccer around the globe is MORE focused on athleticism and the US has been lagging behind getting the "right" types of athletes to play soccer. Those types are not NBA or NFL players and the humorous thing is the rest of the world knows it.

              The real problems with US soccer lie in the fact that it is not the primary sport in the country and that when we teach kids to play it, we focus on giving everyone a trophy so they become happy well adjusted children who don't "waste" their time playing a silly game like soccer with no future in it as adults. We are very successful at doing that and soccer is not viewed as a terribly attractive career option in this country.

              The true disconnect in this country is that for some odd reason we also want to produce a whole lot of dumb stepford jocks to play soccer on the international stage so we can all pound ourselves on the backs but then no one really wants to pay the price to have their kid actually go down that path. In the end most world class athletes develop in quite austere environments and most parents in a country like the US just don't want their children to actually go down that path. That is why we will always lag behind the countries like Brazil in soccer, the socio economics in fully developed economies like ours present far more attractive options than playing soccer for a living so we will never get our true best and brightest out there to compete against them.

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                #22
                Agreed

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  The laughable thing about these ever present arguments is they all would have you believe that everywhere in the entire soccer playing world except the United States soccer is played by smallish, unathletic players who found success simply because of their passion for the game and the technical skills that passion developed. That couldn't be further from the truth and shows how completely ignorant some of you are about the game and the world around you. Have some of you actually looked at the bodies of the typical world class soccer player and done the research into their performance metrics? If anything soccer around the globe is MORE focused on athleticism and the US has been lagging behind getting the "right" types of athletes to play soccer. Those types are not NBA or NFL players and the humorous thing is the rest of the world knows it.

                  The real problems with US soccer lie in the fact that it is not the primary sport in the country and that when we teach kids to play it, we focus on giving everyone a trophy so they become happy well adjusted children who don't "waste" their time playing a silly game like soccer with no future in it as adults. We are very successful at doing that and soccer is not viewed as a terribly attractive career option in this country.

                  The true disconnect in this country is that for some odd reason we also want to produce a whole lot of dumb stepford jocks to play soccer on the international stage so we can all pound ourselves on the backs but then no one really wants to pay the price to have their kid actually go down that path. In the end most world class athletes develop in quite austere environments and most parents in a country like the US just don't want their children to actually go down that path. That is why we will always lag behind the countries like Brazil in soccer, the socio economics in fully developed economies like ours present far more attractive options than playing soccer for a living so we will never get our true best and brightest out there to compete against them.
                  Nice post, BTDT. Just go easy on the arrogant, know-it-all style.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    Nice post, BTDT. Just go easy on the arrogant, know-it-all style.
                    Didn't seem like BTDT to me. And nothing he said was that controversial. More cliche than controversial. The only nuance I saw was that the crazy technical players from other countries are, in fact, insanely good athletes. They aren't 6'4" and can't lift 300 pounds but they are great athletes by other measures. They are not marked simply by their passion and commitment (although you can bet they have it and have had it since they were young).

                    The socioeconomics of US soccer are no different from the socioeconomics of US baseball vis-a-vis the DR.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      The laughable thing about these ever present arguments is they all would have you believe that everywhere in the entire soccer playing world except the United States soccer is played by smallish, unathletic players who found success simply because of their passion for the game and the technical skills that passion developed. That couldn't be further from the truth and shows how completely ignorant some of you are about the game and the world around you. Have some of you actually looked at the bodies of the typical world class soccer player and done the research into their performance metrics? If anything soccer around the globe is MORE focused on athleticism and the US has been lagging behind getting the "right" types of athletes to play soccer. Those types are not NBA or NFL players and the humorous thing is the rest of the world knows it.

                      The real problems with US soccer lie in the fact that it is not the primary sport in the country and that when we teach kids to play it, we focus on giving everyone a trophy so they become happy well adjusted children who don't "waste" their time playing a silly game like soccer with no future in it as adults. We are very successful at doing that and soccer is not viewed as a terribly attractive career option in this country.

                      The true disconnect in this country is that for some odd reason we also want to produce a whole lot of dumb stepford jocks to play soccer on the international stage so we can all pound ourselves on the backs but then no one really wants to pay the price to have their kid actually go down that path. In the end most world class athletes develop in quite austere environments and most parents in a country like the US just don't want their children to actually go down that path. That is why we will always lag behind the countries like Brazil in soccer, the socio economics in fully developed economies like ours present far more attractive options than playing soccer for a living so we will never get our true best and brightest out there to compete against them.
                      Germany is not a developed economy?

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        Didn't seem like BTDT to me. And nothing he said was that controversial. More cliche than controversial. The only nuance I saw was that the crazy technical players from other countries are, in fact, insanely good athletes. They aren't 6'4" and can't lift 300 pounds but they are great athletes by other measures. They are not marked simply by their passion and commitment (although you can bet they have it and have had it since they were young).

                        The socioeconomics of US soccer are no different from the socioeconomics of US baseball vis-a-vis the DR.
                        It was 100% BTDT. Wake up. Fits with his whole theme that there are only like 2 people on earth who are "special."

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          It was 100% BTDT. Wake up. Fits with his whole theme that there are only like 2 people on earth who are "special."
                          The thesis that was offered is consistent with a view that there is athletic talent all over the place that is not commonly acknowledged as athletic talent. It's not just the 6'4" sprinter with he big right foot. That ridiculously technical kid on your team isn't just the product of trying really hard. She's a stud athlete in her own right.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Here we go again..

                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Nice post, BTDT. Just go easy on the arrogant, know-it-all style.
                            Another thread getting flushed down the toilet. Great..

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              This is already understood in American sports. The top quarterbacks in Pro Football are not the most athletic people.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                This is already understood in American sports. The top quarterbacks in Pro Football are not the most athletic people.
                                And how do we know you are wrong? The market tells us so.

                                QB is the most well-paid and long-lived positions on the field. Most status as well. If you could pick any starting position on the field, that's the one you would take. Your definition of athleticism is much too narrow. The athleticism of a QB is much closer to the athleticism of a soccer player than any other position on the field. Vision, processing power and ability to execute technically. Sound familiar?

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