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Ivy League Women’s Soccer Insight

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    #31
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Some ivies make their decisions early (and have seen commit a bunch of 2021 players verbally) and some do not. That's based on conversation with assistant coaches as well as the topdrawersoccer data. From what I've noticed there are players that apparently committed but are not listed, so TDS may not be 100% accurate - but you can get the general idea from there.
    Are these 2021s committing before they’ve taken the SAT or are they taking it early, as a sophomore?

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      #32
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      Are these 2021s committing before they’ve taken the SAT or are they taking it early, as a sophomore?
      My kid took SATs in Feb of Soph year, in order to have a number for the Ivy coaches. It wasn't great, but the schools were reasonably confident that her score would eventually get to the level they needed for admissions. By fall of junior year she'd added enough points on both tests to get well above the target AI and made her commitment (we wouldn't let her commit until she got the score she needed; a couple of schools seemed like they would have committed her prior to that). However, this was under the old timeline, so perhaps kids can wait a bit longer to start taking SAT's under the new system.

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        #33
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        My kid took SATs in Feb of Soph year, in order to have a number for the Ivy coaches. It wasn't great, but the schools were reasonably confident that her score would eventually get to the level they needed for admissions. By fall of junior year she'd added enough points on both tests to get well above the target AI and made her commitment (we wouldn't let her commit until she got the score she needed; a couple of schools seemed like they would have committed her prior to that). However, this was under the old timeline, so perhaps kids can wait a bit longer to start taking SAT's under the new system.
        Thank you for the info. Good to wait till high enough scores are reached for the kid too - don’t want them struggling in school going up against the super nerds with perfect scores all around.

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          #34
          The lure of Ivy soccer can be very compelling. However, beware.......

          Carefully check out the majors of the players.

          Look at the attrition stats.

          Look at what the grads of the program are actually doing.

          Consider what kind of an education you will actually receive. Yes, the piece of paper will have a brand name on it but....

          Some kids are happy to get the admission ticket, but are also happy to walk away from the sport.

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            #35
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Thank you for the info. Good to wait till high enough scores are reached for the kid too - don’t want them struggling in school going up against the super nerds with perfect scores all around.
            Good idea to start testing mid sophomore year. Gives them time to take it a few times to get scores to discuss with coaches going into junior year. Supposedly both standardized tests are to test aptitude on topics taught through 9th grade. Figure out which test is better for your student. Some do better on SAT vs ACT and vice versa.

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              #36
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              The lure of Ivy soccer can be very compelling. However, beware.......

              Carefully check out the majors of the players.

              Look at the attrition stats.

              Look at what the grads of the program are actually doing.

              Consider what kind of an education you will actually receive. Yes, the piece of paper will have a brand name on it but....

              Some kids are happy to get the admission ticket, but are also happy to walk away from the sport.
              I think more girls want to play. Like you said, if academics and soccer are both important, be careful to find the right fit. There are a little lower level D1s and also high academic d3s with pretty good soccer. If balance is desired, choose wisely. Every kid is different so everyone’s top fit is different.

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                #37
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Ivies are a big risk, always have been
                There was discussion on the CT board about a girl who had announced she was committed to Brown...and now she's a walk-on at UConn. I have no idea what happened but I think it's safe to say that with Ivies there's always the risk you don't get in, no matter what the coach tells you....

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                  #38
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  My kid took SATs in Feb of Soph year, in order to have a number for the Ivy coaches. It wasn't great, but the schools were reasonably confident that her score would eventually get to the level they needed for admissions. By fall of junior year she'd added enough points on both tests to get well above the target AI and made her commitment (we wouldn't let her commit until she got the score she needed; a couple of schools seemed like they would have committed her prior to that). However, this was under the old timeline, so perhaps kids can wait a bit longer to start taking SAT's under the new system.
                  Any lowered standards for athletes? Or all the same playing field as regular kids?

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    Any lowered standards for athletes? Or all the same playing field as regular kids?
                    There are numerous articles (and anecdotes) about the AI at the various Ivies, how it differs from one sport to another (e.g., football target is lower than sailing or fencing, etc.), and how it might vary from one school to another. The standard gap for athletes vs. narps may be different from school to school as well. We were told by one school that the target for the Athletic Department is 1standard deviation lower than the average for an incoming class as a whole. So, yes - you might assume that the standards are different.

                    Also note that within a recruiting class, the standard might be different. For example, if the target for the soccer team is an average AI of 215 and there are 4 kids committed that are averaging 212, the coaches are going to need the last 2 kids to be >220 to round out the class. Those last 2 recruits might not be great soccer players; they are there to jack the AI up. This is an example of where families might look at a kid being recruited and say, "why her?", when the answer might be academic.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      There are numerous articles (and anecdotes) about the AI at the various Ivies, how it differs from one sport to another (e.g., football target is lower than sailing or fencing, etc.), and how it might vary from one school to another. The standard gap for athletes vs. narps may be different from school to school as well. We were told by one school that the target for the Athletic Department is 1standard deviation lower than the average for an incoming class as a whole. So, yes - you might assume that the standards are different.

                      Also note that within a recruiting class, the standard might be different. For example, if the target for the soccer team is an average AI of 215 and there are 4 kids committed that are averaging 212, the coaches are going to need the last 2 kids to be >220 to round out the class. Those last 2 recruits might not be great soccer players; they are there to jack the AI up. This is an example of where families might look at a kid being recruited and say, "why her?", when the answer might be academic.
                      Note: this is also how an Ivy can early recruit really good players even before the SAT's have come in. They capture a stud forward or midfielder that they know will make an impact, then play wait & see with the other spots until they know what AI #'s they need and put the puzzle together to round out the recruiting class. If the studs happen to be great students, they don't have to wait so long...

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        Are these 2021s committing before they’ve taken the SAT or are they taking it early, as a sophomore?
                        They were committed before SATs based primarily on the GPA.

                        The NCAA rules will delay that slightly. But not far enough where results of standardized tests will be available (unless the kid attends a prep school)

                        However, most Ivy schools will probably stop using standardized tests as these are being shown as lawsuits liability. In any case, athletes can be admitted even in the bottom quartile range for standardized test for a given school (which is still pretty high score).

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                          #42
                          What does prep school have anything to do with test results being available? My 2021 is taking the SAT in 2 days, a year before his non athlete friends.

                          I can't see the Ivies tossing the AI to the winds lightly. And if you remove testing as the major component, what do you replace it with? GPAs vary widely over schools, which is why the AI gives double the weight to test score vs GPA.

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                            #43
                            From a WaPo piece today

                            "Harvard University, one of the world’s most selective schools, admits fewer than 5 percent of applicants. But court documents in a lawsuit over Harvard admissions indicate that when an applicant was designated as an athletic recruit during a recent six-year period, the admission rate was 86 percent....

                            In 2011, Brown’s president at the time, Ruth J. Simmons, grew so concerned about the athletic factor that she engineered a 9 percent reduction in admission slots reserved for recruits. The cut, to 205 a year, was meant “to appropriately rebalance academic goals and athletic interests in the Brown context,” Simmons wrote.

                            The statement from Simmons provided a rare glimpse of the link between admissions and athletics at a highly competitive school. Varsity Blues investigators found more: Georgetown University set aside 158 admissions slots a year for recruited athletes; Wake Forest University, 128. Documents last year from the civil lawsuit, unrelated to the Varsity Blues case, disclosed that Harvard offered admission recently to an estimated 180 recruited athletes a year. The totals at those three schools represent 9 percent to 11 percent of incoming classes at each school."


                            https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...ec0_story.html

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                              #44
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              They were committed before SATs based primarily on the GPA.

                              The NCAA rules will delay that slightly. But not far enough where results of standardized tests will be available (unless the kid attends a prep school)

                              However, most Ivy schools will probably stop using standardized tests as these are being shown as lawsuits liability. In any case, athletes can be admitted even in the bottom quartile range for standardized test for a given school (which is still pretty high score).
                              They may not require standardized tests in the normal admissions process, but I would be shocked if they don't continue to require them in pre-read activities. There's so little information to go on, otherwise. If a kid is a freshman getting B+'s and A-'s, how is an admissions officer able to have any sense for the kid's future ability to handle high-level work? They need data points to give reasonable feedback to the coaching staff regarding admissions potential, so even an early SAT of 1300 as a sophomore can be valuable.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                What does prep school have anything to do with test results being available? My 2021 is taking the SAT in 2 days, a year before his non athlete friends.

                                I can't see the Ivies tossing the AI to the winds lightly. And if you remove testing as the major component, what do you replace it with? GPAs vary widely over schools, which is why the AI gives double the weight to test score vs GPA.
                                Lots of prep schools do SAT as part of sophomore curriculum. It varies.

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