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    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    cuz 1) The Scholarship - Stanford, Duke, ND, UVA, for nothin'
    cuz 2) The Support - athletes get all the help they need
    Tennessee and Florida State have support as well. You can't use a concept and apply it sometimes and then not others. Targeting poorly academically can lead to a No Go on things like med school, law school, etc.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      cuz 1) The Scholarship - Stanford, Duke, ND, UVA, for nothin'
      cuz 2) The Support - athletes get all the help they need
      I don't care how much support or even cheating help you get. Sitting in pre med classes when you're a 1200-1250 SAT kid with a room full of 1550 kids makes a difference. Or is that just in D3? And why would a 1550 attend a D3 whether an athlete or non-athlete, right? Let's make sure we get BTNT's preferred narrative right once and for all, contradictions and lies and all.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        Not for nothing, but every college now has an online calculator to get a rough idea of how much financial aid a family would receive and what their expected family contribution would be. Our AGI is about 190k and every calculator I've used has our family's expected contribution close to $45k on total costs between $70k-80k depending on the college. That's $25-35k in financial aid that doesn't need to be repaid.

        Even with an AGI over 150k, there is help. Not saying $45k/year is manageable to most six-figure income families, but we could easily cover half that a year and the kid takes loans out on the rest. Add in academic money for top academic prospects and athletic money for top athletic prospects, and it can work with some planning, sacrifices, and a little luck.

        Also, not sure where the teachers you know live and work, but the teachers I know don't earn $100k... not even close. Principals, school psychologists, and other senior "admin" positions pay that, but the majority rank and file don't earn $100k around these parts. http://profiles.doe.mass.edu/statere...rsalaries.aspx from 2018 shows 5 school districts with average teacher income over $100k out of 100's. Averages are a terrible metric given they get skewed by outliers. Median would be much closer to the "truth" of what teachers earn as it is very dependent on what school district and length of time in the job. I know a ton new teachers who are barely breaking 40k and many don't last the 20+ years. They often leave the profession with 10.
        You've said a lot here. If your AGI is 190k and your expected contribution is $45k, then you have no savings...

        Comment


          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          I don't care how much support or even cheating help you get. Sitting in pre med classes when you're a 1200-1250 SAT kid with a room full of 1550 kids makes a difference. Or is that just in D3? And why would a 1550 attend a D3 whether an athlete or non-athlete, right? Let's make sure we get BTNT's preferred narrative right once and for all, contradictions and lies and all.
          Sorry, but I think a 1250 kid hs enough smarts to make it to med school, even if if most of the class has much better SATs. The question is whether the kid has the time to put in the work necessary to master the material. That is the real problem with D1 sports and serious academics. There is no substitute for putting in the time cracking the books.

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            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            So now you're saying varsity athlete and not D1-specific athlete. And you're doing a disservice to suggest that meeting some minimum is so easy. The minimum is high and many even who meet that high bar don't get in, and yes, in a tie, being an athlete can be a differentiator but not more than being a concert pianist. And I would assume that you understand that your on kid is in rare air. Good for her. And you.
            So, at least you admit the tie can go to the varsity athlete. I will go further. The varsity athlete can push ahead of others due to that status, which includes the special qualities the varsity athlete brings to the table. Many med schools use the GPA and MCAT for the initial screening, who to invite for interviews, etc. Then they look for what else the individual has.

            Yes, I think the D1 athlete has the advantage over the D3, as I think the D1 path is much harder and Med schools realize that. I think BTDT has brought up the example of the accomplished ortho surgeon several times. Although 1 example does not prove anything, my kid tells me that it is not uncommon to have athletes as ortho surgeons. Emergency medicine is another specialty which tends to draw athletes.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Sorry, but I think a 1250 kid hs enough smarts to make it to med school, even if if most of the class has much better SATs. The question is whether the kid has the time to put in the work necessary to master the material. That is the real problem with D1 sports and serious academics. There is no substitute for putting in the time cracking the books.
              Possible? Yes. Frequent? Absolutely not.

              Comment


                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                So, at least you admit the tie can go to the varsity athlete. I will go further. The varsity athlete can push ahead of others due to that status, which includes the special qualities the varsity athlete brings to the table. Many med schools use the GPA and MCAT for the initial screening, who to invite for interviews, etc. Then they look for what else the individual has.

                Yes, I think the D1 athlete has the advantage over the D3, as I think the D1 path is much harder and Med schools realize that. I think BTDT has brought up the example of the accomplished ortho surgeon several times. Although 1 example does not prove anything, my kid tells me that it is not uncommon to have athletes as ortho surgeons. Emergency medicine is another specialty which tends to draw athletes.
                But not more than other kids with other special talents (whatever they may be), and they DO want a lot of other stuff like serious, sustained volunteerism in addition to the other demands.

                And yes. that one example is stupid. Every university has their celebrities who did something special. There are not a ton of them at D1s or D3s to be honest.

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  So, at least you admit the tie can go to the varsity athlete. I will go further. The varsity athlete can push ahead of others due to that status, which includes the special qualities the varsity athlete brings to the table. Many med schools use the GPA and MCAT for the initial screening, who to invite for interviews, etc. Then they look for what else the individual has.

                  Yes, I think the D1 athlete has the advantage over the D3, as I think the D1 path is much harder and Med schools realize that. I think BTDT has brought up the example of the accomplished ortho surgeon several times. Although 1 example does not prove anything, my kid tells me that it is not uncommon to have athletes as ortho surgeons. Emergency medicine is another specialty which tends to draw athletes.
                  Whatever makes you sleep at night. Do you really think D1 has an advantage?

                  As a hiring manager, D1 or D3 or working full time and dealing with studies all fall into the same category when I screen candidates. In fact, the working candidate may have a bit more to offer than a narrow college experience. You are REALLY reaching...

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    Interesting reading this thread for a middle school parent. (My daughter is a solid player on the top team for one of the big clubs, but not one of the top 2-3 girls; excellent student, with great standardized testing and a definite interest in STEM. She loves soccer and wants to be as good as she can and says she wants to play soccer in college.)

                    Some of the take-aways:

                    D1 soccer is a full-time job, even at an Ivy school.
                    Doing that job can and does interfere with the ability to be a serious student in college, but it can be done.
                    A scholarship to a place like Duke or another high academic D1 is theoretically possible, but only a few girls each year from this area are in that situation. (So, it is unlikely to be in my daughter's future, given her skill level, although she could improve.....)

                    So, it seems to me (although I would not say anything to my daughter) that Ivy may be the ultimate goal for her. But, I could see certain top D3 schools in the mix. People mention the NESCACs, but I am not sure they are right for STEM. I was thinking more of places like Johns Hopkins, Harvey Mudd, Cal Tech, MIT. Some of them seem to have pretty good soccer.
                    Agree with this and we are in the same place with our kids. Great at soccer but not a unicorn that would get recruited at a Duke or Stanford type school. Could qualify academically for those schools but so do a zillion other kids so with a 6% admit rate, it would be the luck of the draw to get in period. Same goes for the top academic D3s, with less than 10% (or even 15%) admit rates, there are thousands upon thousands more qualified applicants than can be admitted. Now, if their great soccer can get them a leg up and get them into a NESCAC or similar D3 like Hopkins, then that would be their first choice. The soccer is still pretty good and the ultimate goal since they were little was doing well in school and going to the best college possible. The goal has never been to play the highest level soccer possible, despite academics. Honestly, they’d jump at an athletic offer from Duke, Stanford, Georgetown, etc but, like I said, they’re not unicorns so those offers won’t be coming for soccer.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      But not more than other kids with other special talents (whatever they may be), and they DO want a lot of other stuff like serious, sustained volunteerism in addition to the other demands.

                      And yes. that one example is stupid. Every university has their celebrities who did something special. There are not a ton of them at D1s or D3s to be honest.
                      I beg to differ on two of your points. First: "But not more than other kids with other special talents (whatever they may be)" As I have said before, the qualities associated with being a college varsity athlete (such as time management skills, teamwork, etc.) are particularly valued by med schools, more so than "other special talents". Second I do not think that "sustained volunteerism" is a requirement. Sometimes it is used as a means to help prove depth of seriousness about a medical career, but by itself, it is by no means a requirement.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        You've said a lot here. If your AGI is 190k and your expected contribution is $45k, then you have no savings...
                        Yep. The system is rigged to punish those who save... go figure. College savings like 529’s come right off the top of any aid, so why bother? Save for retirement in protected accounts instead and keep as little “liquid” savings as possible. Also, mortgage the crap out of your house so there is no equity they can use in their formula. Once you know how the system works, and with enough time to financially prepare, you can basically max out aid even with a high AGI.

                        Why should the wealthy and the poor/broke get all the breaks while middle class families get screwed? The sad reality is that college costs have skyrocketed faster than incomes because of government meddling and college bureaucratic bloat. If I can make the system work for me, than I will...

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          Whatever makes you sleep at night. Do you really think D1 has an advantage?

                          As a hiring manager, D1 or D3 or working full time and dealing with studies all fall into the same category when I screen candidates. In fact, the working candidate may have a bit more to offer than a narrow college experience. You are REALLY reaching...
                          My kid played D3, and specifically did not want the rigors of D1. So, yes, think a D1 athlete who put up with the additional time requirements of D1 rightfully has a little edge over the D3 athlete. D3 is easier, primarily because of a lesser time commitment, which is the exact main point of many posters.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            All D1 unsuccessful, All D3 successful .Got it.
                            No, just sayin that it is harder to be a serious student as a D1 athlete than a D3 athlete.

                            but, hey, not everyone aspires to be a serious student.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              I beg to differ on two of your points. First: "But not more than other kids with other special talents (whatever they may be)" As I have said before, the qualities associated with being a college varsity athlete (such as time management skills, teamwork, etc.) are particularly valued by med schools, more so than "other special talents". Second I do not think that "sustained volunteerism" is a requirement. Sometimes it is used as a means to help prove depth of seriousness about a medical career, but by itself, it is by no means a requirement.
                              I suspected you had no clue what you're talking about. You don't think being a concert level pianist teaches you things? What a grossly biased view you revealed. And volunteerism is a very concrete thing. They are basically essential. Never heard of needing XYZ volunteer hours and XYZ shadowing hours? And you were really distorted acting like a 1250 competing with 1550s so successfully is a common thing.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                I suspected you had no clue what you're talking about. You don't think being a concert level pianist teaches you things? What a grossly biased view you revealed. And volunteerism is a very concrete thing. They are basically essential. Never heard of needing XYZ volunteer hours and XYZ shadowing hours? And you were really distorted acting like a 1250 competing with 1550s so successfully is a common thing.
                                "Shadowing" is not sustained volunteerism.
                                Volunteering at a hospital or clinic is a way to get direct experience about health care and show your seriousness about medicine as a career. The experience at the hospital or clinic is not about the "sustained volunteerism" rather it is important because of gaining direct experience in the health care professions.

                                "HEALTH CARE EXPERIENCE
                                According to a recent survey of medical schools, knowledge of health care issues and commitment to health care were among the top five variables considered very important to student selection (the other four were med school interview ratings, GPA, MCAT scores, and letters of recommendation)."

                                Of course, being a concert level pianist teaches you things. Maybe it helps if you want to become a hand surgeon.....

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