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ODP . . . why all midfielders? Why stigma on Defense?

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    ODP . . . why all midfielders? Why stigma on Defense?

    ODP is a great opportunity to go from one club/team, and experience another on the side without any stereotype of you being good/bad or position or coach bias on favorites or whatever. A young kid can break free and be a new person that's exciting.

    We've all noticed that when the time in ODP practice comes for scrimmage, the coaches ask who's playing midfield, every kid raises their hand. Yes a few strikers, but Defense is like jury duty. I have three kids on offense and the competition for that spot is so intense we had to teach them to speak up. If they don't, they are stuck on D and nobody subs them out. FYI we also coached them to not say "center mid" as that's the spot that gets subbed out by the bench kid every 90 seconds. Perhaps as a parent I'm part of the problem.

    But that's just scrimmage, right? If you look at the region 1 pool ODP selection lists, for all years going back 5 years. One defender chosen. One of a few dozen. Odd. Then you look at 2018's region 1 pool list for CT (which was a great year for CT) and almost two dozen kids, all offense. Zero defense. The kids chosen for regional pools are usually the flashy or shooting offensive types who admittedly look great in a tryout futsal situation. So I just presumed some other state had some strong fast defenders that make the pool, or at least politics that supply some defenders and the regional camp would be good. Nope. So the region 1 camp was more of the same. It didn’t stop there.

    We were lucky enough to get chosen in a prior year to the region 1 camp and subsequent regional team and fly to another country. Once we were 2000 miles from home and about to take the field, the coach asked who is playing midfield and the entire team raises their hand. It was like being in scrimmage again. Odd since the team was hand picked by that coach. The coach became frustrated, and randomly assigns kids to Defense (and oddly striker). $2k of travel to play defense and get smoked in 3 games. Two of the 4 goals we scored were self goals. Great.

    Here's the problem, those who actually are good at D stop coming and quit, or continue to pretend to be midfield and haven't been sent backfield yet. You can't have a good team or even a pass upfield without good defense, so I selfishly asked them to come back to ODP. Gosh I wish I didn't. They cited zero coaching given to D, the only D moves rewarded are abandoning your position and running or kicking it up but then nobody covers you, midfielders who don't come back to help out else be associated with defense, and goalies who aren't allowed to punt so they roll the ball out to them into the pressure of an opposing team with 5 forwards and 4 mids. Then the coaches yell at Defense for the inevitable outcomes of the constant 5 offenders on the only 2-3 defenders. Their other choice is a club who does the exact opposite, and builds from the back and thus tells the Defenders to quit ODP. So they leave with zero chance of coming back. Then with the remaining team, the situation becomes worse.

    I learned a lot about what happens within the defensive lines. I told that bad news to the players on the state teams. They said they won't win two games, and doing well versus other states was a big promise made to them. Then they worry that they themselves might get send back to D. The (parents of) goalies we knew took it the hardest as the punching bag shifts back to them, but they joked the goalies will get a lot more action and attention.

    So odd. No doubt ODP puts a stigma on defense from the state right on up to regional teams over the years. Either ODP has it right, or the club does. If ODP has it wrong, why is that? If ODP is correct, where does this go? If ODP is development focussed without wins/losses, then I don't see their vision of taking a well rounded midfielder and sending them back to D if there's a harsh stigma and no reward to being in that position.

    #2
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    ODP is a great opportunity to go from one club/team, and experience another on the side without any stereotype of you being good/bad or position or coach bias on favorites or whatever. A young kid can break free and be a new person that's exciting.

    We've all noticed that when the time in ODP practice comes for scrimmage, the coaches ask who's playing midfield, every kid raises their hand. Yes a few strikers, but Defense is like jury duty. I have three kids on offense and the competition for that spot is so intense we had to teach them to speak up. If they don't, they are stuck on D and nobody subs them out. FYI we also coached them to not say "center mid" as that's the spot that gets subbed out by the bench kid every 90 seconds. Perhaps as a parent I'm part of the problem.

    But that's just scrimmage, right? If you look at the region 1 pool ODP selection lists, for all years going back 5 years. One defender chosen. One of a few dozen. Odd. Then you look at 2018's region 1 pool list for CT (which was a great year for CT) and almost two dozen kids, all offense. Zero defense. The kids chosen for regional pools are usually the flashy or shooting offensive types who admittedly look great in a tryout futsal situation. So I just presumed some other state had some strong fast defenders that make the pool, or at least politics that supply some defenders and the regional camp would be good. Nope. So the region 1 camp was more of the same. It didn’t stop there.

    We were lucky enough to get chosen in a prior year to the region 1 camp and subsequent regional team and fly to another country. Once we were 2000 miles from home and about to take the field, the coach asked who is playing midfield and the entire team raises their hand. It was like being in scrimmage again. Odd since the team was hand picked by that coach. The coach became frustrated, and randomly assigns kids to Defense (and oddly striker). $2k of travel to play defense and get smoked in 3 games. Two of the 4 goals we scored were self goals. Great.

    Here's the problem, those who actually are good at D stop coming and quit, or continue to pretend to be midfield and haven't been sent backfield yet. You can't have a good team or even a pass upfield without good defense, so I selfishly asked them to come back to ODP. Gosh I wish I didn't. They cited zero coaching given to D, the only D moves rewarded are abandoning your position and running or kicking it up but then nobody covers you, midfielders who don't come back to help out else be associated with defense, and goalies who aren't allowed to punt so they roll the ball out to them into the pressure of an opposing team with 5 forwards and 4 mids. Then the coaches yell at Defense for the inevitable outcomes of the constant 5 offenders on the only 2-3 defenders. Their other choice is a club who does the exact opposite, and builds from the back and thus tells the Defenders to quit ODP. So they leave with zero chance of coming back. Then with the remaining team, the situation becomes worse.

    I learned a lot about what happens within the defensive lines. I told that bad news to the players on the state teams. They said they won't win two games, and doing well versus other states was a big promise made to them. Then they worry that they themselves might get send back to D. The (parents of) goalies we knew took it the hardest as the punching bag shifts back to them, but they joked the goalies will get a lot more action and attention.

    So odd. No doubt ODP puts a stigma on defense from the state right on up to regional teams over the years. Either ODP has it right, or the club does. If ODP has it wrong, why is that? If ODP is correct, where does this go? If ODP is development focussed without wins/losses, then I don't see their vision of taking a well rounded midfielder and sending them back to D if there's a harsh stigma and no reward to being in that position.
    ODP looks for players with technical skills. That’s typically midfielders.

    Next they look for kids who can score.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      ODP looks for players with technical skills. That’s typically midfielders.

      Next they look for kids who can score.
      If you get rid of defense, tons of scoring and a successful program!

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        If you get rid of defense, tons of scoring and a successful program!
        At that level kids should be able to play defense

        Comment


          #5
          ODP . . . why all midfielders? Why stigma on Defense?

          The issue with this thread is you are looking for logic in ODP. It's obvious

          If ODP indeed rewards scoring, and if a kid has passion for defense, then don't go to ODP. It's just going to be frustrating. The whole point of ODP is to be identified, to be identified you need to score, and defenders don't score. Get it? It's not a place for them. So those defenders figured that out.

          The only idiot is you for having asked those defenders to reconsider, although I realize you probably just wanted good defenders on the team to pass up to your kids. But if you took the time to talk to parents and find solutions, and post this, then you wasted too much time already. It's not going to happen. Just make sure your kid(s) doesn't get sent back to defense, which it seems they did.

          People who pass also don't score. By definition, never. So don't send a possession/team player to ODP either as it's not a team but a group of competing individuals looking to get identified. Only send your kid to ODP to barrel thru and knock over kids to go coast to coast to get any kind of shot off. That's what stands out, that's what ODP looks for, and if you watch a state vs state ODP game that's what the coaches cheer on. The player who stays back and covers for that "star" will never get noticed.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by unregistered View Post
            the issue with this thread is you are looking for logic in odp. It's obvious

            if odp indeed rewards scoring, and if a kid has passion for defense, then don't go to odp. It's just going to be frustrating. The whole point of odp is to be identified, to be identified you need to score, and defenders don't score. Get it? It's not a place for them. So those defenders figured that out.

            The only idiot is you for having asked those defenders to reconsider, although i realize you probably just wanted good defenders on the team to pass up to your kids. But if you took the time to talk to parents and find solutions, and post this, then you wasted too much time already. It's not going to happen. Just make sure your kid(s) doesn't get sent back to defense, which it seems they did.

            People who pass also don't score. By definition, never. So don't send a possession/team player to odp either as it's not a team but a group of competing individuals looking to get identified. Only send your kid to odp to barrel thru and knock over kids to go coast to coast to get any kind of shot off. That's what stands out, that's what odp looks for, and if you watch a state vs state odp game that's what the coaches cheer on. The player who stays back and covers for that "star" will never get noticed.
            spot on!!!!

            Comment


              #7
              the stupidity in this thread. more like when the vast majority of players are interchangeable, decisions are made using other factors.

              what that does is make parents come up with idiotic theories to justify not being selected

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                At that level kids should be able to play defense
                Yeah right. Forwards have an uncanny and innate ability to play defense. They stay in the open field and run as much as possible with little discipline. They often lack technical skills of mids and are not as sure-footed, aggressive, and risk-averse as backs. Don't belittle the backs as skill-less twits. The good ones that are fast and competent are as rare as the good forwards or mids.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  ODP is a great opportunity to go from one club/team, and experience another on the side without any stereotype of you being good/bad or position or coach bias on favorites or whatever. A young kid can break free and be a new person that's exciting.

                  We've all noticed that when the time in ODP practice comes for scrimmage, the coaches ask who's playing midfield, every kid raises their hand. Yes a few strikers, but Defense is like jury duty. I have three kids on offense and the competition for that spot is so intense we had to teach them to speak up. If they don't, they are stuck on D and nobody subs them out. FYI we also coached them to not say "center mid" as that's the spot that gets subbed out by the bench kid every 90 seconds. Perhaps as a parent I'm part of the problem.

                  But that's just scrimmage, right? If you look at the region 1 pool ODP selection lists, for all years going back 5 years. One defender chosen. One of a few dozen. Odd. Then you look at 2018's region 1 pool list for CT (which was a great year for CT) and almost two dozen kids, all offense. Zero defense. The kids chosen for regional pools are usually the flashy or shooting offensive types who admittedly look great in a tryout futsal situation. So I just presumed some other state had some strong fast defenders that make the pool, or at least politics that supply some defenders and the regional camp would be good. Nope. So the region 1 camp was more of the same. It didn’t stop there.

                  We were lucky enough to get chosen in a prior year to the region 1 camp and subsequent regional team and fly to another country. Once we were 2000 miles from home and about to take the field, the coach asked who is playing midfield and the entire team raises their hand. It was like being in scrimmage again. Odd since the team was hand picked by that coach. The coach became frustrated, and randomly assigns kids to Defense (and oddly striker). $2k of travel to play defense and get smoked in 3 games. Two of the 4 goals we scored were self goals. Great.

                  Here's the problem, those who actually are good at D stop coming and quit, or continue to pretend to be midfield and haven't been sent backfield yet. You can't have a good team or even a pass upfield without good defense, so I selfishly asked them to come back to ODP. Gosh I wish I didn't. They cited zero coaching given to D, the only D moves rewarded are abandoning your position and running or kicking it up but then nobody covers you, midfielders who don't come back to help out else be associated with defense, and goalies who aren't allowed to punt so they roll the ball out to them into the pressure of an opposing team with 5 forwards and 4 mids. Then the coaches yell at Defense for the inevitable outcomes of the constant 5 offenders on the only 2-3 defenders. Their other choice is a club who does the exact opposite, and builds from the back and thus tells the Defenders to quit ODP. So they leave with zero chance of coming back. Then with the remaining team, the situation becomes worse.

                  I learned a lot about what happens within the defensive lines. I told that bad news to the players on the state teams. They said they won't win two games, and doing well versus other states was a big promise made to them. Then they worry that they themselves might get send back to D. The (parents of) goalies we knew took it the hardest as the punching bag shifts back to them, but they joked the goalies will get a lot more action and attention.

                  So odd. No doubt ODP puts a stigma on defense from the state right on up to regional teams over the years. Either ODP has it right, or the club does. If ODP has it wrong, why is that? If ODP is correct, where does this go? If ODP is development focussed without wins/losses, then I don't see their vision of taking a well rounded midfielder and sending them back to D if there's a harsh stigma and no reward to being in that position.
                  If I was running a team at any high level, I wouldn't ask, I would figure out which kids fit which positions for their own good and the good of the team. As you said, everyone is a forward or mid (at least they want to be).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    ODP doesn't look for any player in particular. They want any player to pay the $500 fee for a training from a travel program. My experience with my daughter was awful but I was my fault. I believe everything JJ said. He runs the Trumbull ODP trainings and the players and coaches are all from Trumbull travel teams. Please do not waste your money. It is not worth it.

                    Been there, done that

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      If I was running a team at any high level, I wouldn't ask, I would figure out which kids fit which positions for their own good and the good of the team. As you said, everyone is a forward or mid (at least they want to be).
                      That's a great point. In a club, you play where the coach tells you to. Odd that ODP even asks. But, ODP is kind of one big pick up game and the coaches take on dozens of kids for short amounts of time. So the coaches have to ask, whereas the club coaches know their players

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        If I was running a team at any high level, I wouldn't ask, I would figure out which kids fit which positions for their own good and the good of the team. As you said, everyone is a forward or mid (at least they want to be).
                        But you’re not so shut it

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          But you’re not so shut it
                          Haha, too bad for you and your kid .... have fun pi$$ing away your money for little training and poor training at that. If your kid makes the travel team, have fun getting killed. Waste of money and a waste of time, but keep dreaming ..... the last time a kid from CT ODP made the USNT, you have to go way back to ..... NEVER!!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Haha, too bad for you and your kid .... have fun pi$$ing away your money for little training and poor training at that. If your kid makes the travel team, have fun getting killed. Waste of money and a waste of time, but keep dreaming ..... the last time a kid from CT ODP made the USNT, you have to go way back to ..... NEVER!!
                            is the PDP program the same way?

                            Comment


                              #15
                              ODP has not been relevant for 15 years. It is a waste of money and time.

                              Comment

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