Time to banish the big moneymaking clubs

[Unregistered]

Never a truer paragraph, the big clubs are exploiting rich parents who want nice uniforms and willing to pay now 4k+. My Son plays for the mighty bolts

There is this insane feedback loop in youth soccer that stokes the coals of inequity, limited opportunity, and a bunch of people (65% of the posters on here) who are in denial about the problem and don't want to admit that they've been taken advantage of.

1. There is a generational divide between those with the power in youth soccer. Those in charge don't want to give up even the slightest grip on this power lest someone else challenge their authority or cause them to adapt. They'd rather be benefiting than see a systematic change that increases the outcomes for the players. Good for them for consolidating power but they are not doing what is best for the kids.

2. The coaches who willingly accept pennies on the dollar for their services while constantly participating in this system because they are A.) too afraid to lose their position as coach, and B.) too afraid to be found out for being nothing but a glorified town coach. Really the difference between most club coaches and some dad who played in High School is minimal. The gap decreases even more if that Dad takes a few coaching courses. There are very few good coaches who understand child development and justify coaching at the younger age groups.

3. And this is the one I really don't understand, but parents (the paying customers of soccer) do not allow themselves to become informed consumers. It must be the only $5,000 payment (until college but that's a whole other thing...) they readily cough up without considering their options or what they are actually paying for.

The current system is not serving the game in this country. You can not argue that it is.

[Unregistered]

There is this insane feedback loop in youth soccer that stokes the coals of inequity, limited opportunity, and a bunch of people (65% of the posters on here) who are in denial about the problem and don't want to admit that they've been taken advantage of.

1. There is a generational divide between those with the power in youth soccer. Those in charge don't want to give up even the slightest grip on this power lest someone else challenge their authority or cause them to adapt. They'd rather be benefiting than see a systematic change that increases the outcomes for the players. Good for them for consolidating power but they are not doing what is best for the kids.

2. The coaches who willingly accept pennies on the dollar for their services while constantly participating in this system because they are A.) too afraid to lose their position as coach, and B.) too afraid to be found out for being nothing but a glorified town coach. Really the difference between most club coaches and some dad who played in High School is minimal. The gap decreases even more if that Dad takes a few coaching courses. There are very few good coaches who understand child development and justify coaching at the younger age groups.

3. And this is the one I really don't understand, but parents (the paying customers of soccer) do not allow themselves to become informed consumers. It must be the only $5,000 payment (until college but that's a whole other thing...) they readily cough up without considering their options or what they are actually paying for.

The current system is not serving the game in this country. You can not argue that it is.

No HAS EVER argued that club soccer is "serving the game"

All markets evolve to serve the needs of the payers. I am the payer, and I am a Parent.
It is human nature to want to work hard and give your children advantages.

Why is that hard to understand? I don't care about the game, i care about my kids.
At ulittle I pay to keep my kid socially connected with friends - "They just want to stay together" then when it gets nasty, I pay to give my kid perceived advantages for college. System is perfectly optimized for my needs.

[Unregistered]

If you cared about your kids then maybe you shouldn’t give them advantages. Too bad your kids were not given a chance to do it on their own.

No HAS EVER argued that club soccer is "serving the game"

All markets evolve to serve the needs of the payers. I am the payer, and I am a Parent.
It is human nature to want to work hard and give your children advantages.

Why is that hard to understand? I don't care about the game, i care about my kids.
At ulittle I pay to keep my kid socially connected with friends - "They just want to stay together" then when it gets nasty, I pay to give my kid perceived advantages for college. System is perfectly optimized for my needs.

[Unregistered]

With demise of GPS, i think it is one of the happiest days in USA soccer. Clubs like this are just moneymakers for the mgmt and give very little to the players for the money they cost. The next one that needs to go is Bolts with their exorbitant costs. It does not need to be costing kids this amount of money. There should be nobody where coaching is there full time job. wake up and do not pay any more that 1500 max. GPS parents now know the lies behind the owners and in time bolts and surf will find the same.

Here we go this is genius .......you must be joking you will never be able to pay $1500 max with field rentals tournament fees league fees etc. Businesses are set up to make money or guess what they won't be around any longer. If you want lower fees play town soccer and have fun

[Unregistered]

No HAS EVER argued that club soccer is "serving the game"

All markets evolve to serve the needs of the payers. I am the payer, and I am a Parent.
It is human nature to want to work hard and give your children advantages.

Why is that hard to understand? I don't care about the game, i care about my kids.
At ulittle I pay to keep my kid socially connected with friends - "They just want to stay together" then when it gets nasty, I pay to give my kid perceived advantages for college. System is perfectly optimized for my needs.

Sad, and I'd like to request you find another sport for your outlets next time. Nowhere in your statement was love of the game mentioned.

What this country needs to keep moving this game further are players, parents, all participants, to actually love the game. Parents like these are just taking up space and holding it back for the rest of us.

[Unregistered]

There is this insane feedback loop in youth soccer that stokes the coals of inequity, limited opportunity, and a bunch of people (65% of the posters on here) who are in denial about the problem and don't want to admit that they've been taken advantage of.

1. There is a generational divide between those with the power in youth soccer. Those in charge don't want to give up even the slightest grip on this power lest someone else challenge their authority or cause them to adapt. They'd rather be benefiting than see a systematic change that increases the outcomes for the players. Good for them for consolidating power but they are not doing what is best for the kids.

2. The coaches who willingly accept pennies on the dollar for their services while constantly participating in this system because they are A.) too afraid to lose their position as coach, and B.) too afraid to be found out for being nothing but a glorified town coach. Really the difference between most club coaches and some dad who played in High School is minimal. The gap decreases even more if that Dad takes a few coaching courses. There are very few good coaches who understand child development and justify coaching at the younger age groups.

3. And this is the one I really don't understand, but parents (the paying customers of soccer) do not allow themselves to become informed consumers. It must be the only $5,000 payment (until college but that's a whole other thing...) they readily cough up without considering their options or what they are actually paying for.

The current system is not serving the game in this country. You can not argue that it is.

A pretty accurate review of the state of things but I will add more...

The majority of characters involved don't really know why they're involved. The parents don't really know what they want, so they keep moving to the next "shinny" club, always looking for the greener grass and the coach with the most followers.

The coaches, most of them don't even know why they coach. They are too caught up in recruiting the best players they can find, and too concerned with the X's and O's.

Poor kids... at least they know why they want to play soccer.... to have fun! It's just too bad that parents, coaches, administrators aren't listening to them.

[Unregistered]

1500? Good luck with that one. Yup that's right, soccer clubs are moneymakers. That's the whole point of having a business. It's not going away either. No full time coaches? That sounds like a good idea. Eye roll. So you want coaches that spend less time on soccer? That's going to help the soccer situation in a big way. Not.

What don’t you understand?
The system has failed miserably.
Let me explain on 2 important topics
1: college scholarships—before club soccer came along and made money and promises, good players still got recruited. There has always been a network to spot talent, even back in the old town all-star travel teams. UNC and its counterparts managed to find and recruit enough talent to win nat’l trophies.
Maybe kids even stayed and played a bit more locally.
The clubs have made the concept of scholarship money not much more than a marketing tool.
2: on the National level, the club system, as well all forms of governing bodies has been an abject failure. We are as bad as we have ever been and in some way, worse. We cannot put 11 quality US born players on the pitch and compete. It has been a complete waste of time and money.
There is no argument for it.

As for coaching, that too is horribly misunderstood. At some point, you will realize that the vast majority of “professional/full-time” coaches, especially our foreign friends, are not much more than failed kindergarten teachers.
And licensing is a joke as well. Nscaa, now known as United, has created the illusion that if you spend a week (1 week!!!) you are entitled to a fancy diploma displaying your coaching prowess, regardless of actual game knowledge. If they failed people, nobody would come to their sessions.
At least USSF is more stringent in its approach, which is why it is not as popular. Plus, it helps to have actually played.

Clubs and coaching course purveyors are like the ubiquitous weight loss potions (remember body solutions?), promising magic results with a fancy ad (how many radio personalities really used the crap?) and nothing to back it up.
I am not advocating a nostalgic return to the old days and I do not have an answer, which is very frustrating. But I do know a scam when I see one (like our Prez, sorry, couldn’t resist).
But please do not be so naive to believe that the existing system is for any purpose other than to separate folk from their money, at which it has been incredibly successful.

[Unregistered]

With demise of GPS, i think it is one of the happiest days in USA soccer. Clubs like this are just moneymakers for the mgmt and give very little to the players for the money they cost. The next one that needs to go is Bolts with their exorbitant costs. It does not need to be costing kids this amount of money. There should be nobody where coaching is there full time job. wake up and do not pay any more that 1500 max. GPS parents now know the lies behind the owners and in time bolts and surf will find the same.

Do money makers typically go bankrupt? Asking for a friend.

[Unregistered]

No HAS EVER argued that club soccer is "serving the game"

All markets evolve to serve the needs of the payers. I am the payer, and I am a Parent.
It is human nature to want to work hard and give your children advantages.

Why is that hard to understand? I don't care about the game, i care about my kids.
At ulittle I pay to keep my kid socially connected with friends - "They just want to stay together" then when it gets nasty, I pay to give my kid perceived advantages for college. System is perfectly optimized for my needs.

Paying for “perceived” advantages.
Hahahaha.
Glad it’s your money.
But there’s no way you earned it. Otherwise you’d never spend it so frivolously.

[Unregistered]

My kids play for a club with volunteer coaching and administrators. $1200/year is what I pay, total. This includes Fall and Spring competitive league, twice a week practices 10 months out of the year (some indoor, some outdoor), 4 tournaments and an indoor league. Both of their teams have about 15 kids on the roster. We've played many teams with professional coaches in pro clubs and honestly... we can't tell the difference in quality of play.

[Unregistered]

A pretty accurate review of the state of things but I will add more...

The majority of characters involved don't really know why they're involved. The parents don't really know what they want, so they keep moving to the next "shinny" club, always looking for the greener grass and the coach with the most followers.

The coaches, most of them don't even know why they coach. They are too caught up in recruiting the best players they can find, and too concerned with the X's and O's.

Poor kids... at least they know why they want to play soccer.... to have fun! It's just too bad that parents, coaches, administrators aren't listening to them.

It's pathetic that you respond to your own posts. If you truly believe that you caused GPS to fail by posting on TS (and that you will do it again to the Bolts) then you are crazy. GPS had different business-related issues...Bolts are a well run club.

Stop talking about the 'love of the game'. I don't even like soccer. My kid enjoys it and works hard at it. I support my kids and club soccer is one way to provide that support. If it wasn't for club soccer where would he get the frequency of play that he gets with his club...town soccer? Give me a break.

[Unregistered]

It's pathetic that you respond to your own posts. If you truly believe that you caused GPS to fail by posting on TS (and that you will do it again to the Bolts) then you are crazy. GPS had different business-related issues...Bolts are a well run club.

Stop talking about the 'love of the game'. I don't even like soccer. My kid enjoys it and works hard at it. I support my kids and club soccer is one way to provide that support. If it wasn't for club soccer where would he get the frequency of play that he gets with his club...town soccer? Give me a break.

Step aside, and let those who love the game have a chance now.

[Unregistered]

No HAS EVER argued that club soccer is "serving the game"

All markets evolve to serve the needs of the payers. I am the payer, and I am a Parent.
It is human nature to want to work hard and give your children advantages.

Why is that hard to understand? I don't care about the game, i care about my kids.
At ulittle I pay to keep my kid socially connected with friends - "They just want to stay together" then when it gets nasty, I pay to give my kid perceived advantages for college. System is perfectly optimized for my needs.

The advantage you are perceiving really doesn't exist. Most club players don't play college. There are not many college scholarships for soccer available in the world. This giant bloated system does not do what it says its does but for the reasons stated above it continues to be the only option.


QUOTE=Unregistered;2769366]What don’t you understand?
The system has failed miserably.
Let me explain on 2 important topics
1: college scholarships—before club soccer came along and made money and promises, good players still got recruited. There has always been a network to spot talent, even back in the old town all-star travel teams. UNC and its counterparts managed to find and recruit enough talent to win nat’l trophies.
Maybe kids even stayed and played a bit more locally.
The clubs have made the concept of scholarship money not much more than a marketing tool.
2: on the National level, the club system, as well[/QUOTE]


You and are are on the right side of this argument but I think that you are only looking at youth soccer as serving the national team or trying to create the moste elite players. And you are right, especially in the Men's game, the system is failing.

I also think the system is failing the game by not creating a fair and enjoyable product with the idea of creating more soccer fans. Today's u12 player is tomorrow's fan of the game volunteer coach willing to give back to the game. We don't have enough of that in the youth soccer world. If we were to obtain a critical mass as a soccer country the overall outcomes of all players would increase, the system would be something we could be proud of and every level would benefit. Right now, the cost of entry is way too high and we are alienating far too many potential soccer people.

(sidenote: the United Soccer Coaches diploma is a better academic experience than the USSF badges and encourages learning and I think is totally worthwhile, but it is not a competitive atmosphere. There is also at on wrong with the USSF system but that's for another thread I bet).

[Unregistered]

It's pathetic that you respond to your own posts. If you truly believe that you caused GPS to fail by posting on TS (and that you will do it again to the Bolts) then you are crazy. GPS had different business-related issues...Bolts are a well run club.

Stop talking about the 'love of the game'. I don't even like soccer. My kid enjoys it and works hard at it. I support my kids and club soccer is one way to provide that support. If it wasn't for club soccer where would he get the frequency of play that he gets with his club...town soccer? Give me a break.

Dude is proving our point...

[Unregistered]

What don’t you understand?
The system has failed miserably.
Let me explain on 2 important topics
1: college scholarships—before club soccer came along and made money and promises, good players still got recruited. There has always been a network to spot talent, even back in the old town all-star travel teams. UNC and its counterparts managed to find and recruit enough talent to win nat’l trophies.
Maybe kids even stayed and played a bit more locally.
The clubs have made the concept of scholarship money not much more than a marketing tool.
2: on the National level, the club system, as well all forms of governing bodies has been an abject failure. We are as bad as we have ever been and in some way, worse. We cannot put 11 quality US born players on the pitch and compete. It has been a complete waste of time and money.
There is no argument for it.

As for coaching, that too is horribly misunderstood. At some point, you will realize that the vast majority of “professional/full-time” coaches, especially our foreign friends, are not much more than failed kindergarten teachers.
And licensing is a joke as well. Nscaa, now known as United, has created the illusion that if you spend a week (1 week!!!) you are entitled to a fancy diploma displaying your coaching prowess, regardless of actual game knowledge. If they failed people, nobody would come to their sessions.
At least USSF is more stringent in its approach, which is why it is not as popular. Plus, it helps to have actually played.

Clubs and coaching course purveyors are like the ubiquitous weight loss potions (remember body solutions?), promising magic results with a fancy ad (how many radio personalities really used the crap?) and nothing to back it up.
I am not advocating a nostalgic return to the old days and I do not have an answer, which is very frustrating. But I do know a scam when I see one (like our Prez, sorry, couldn’t resist).
But please do not be so naive to believe that the existing system is for any purpose other than to separate folk from their money, at which it has been incredibly successful.

The reason we can't put 11 US-born players on the field is because soccer is not the primary sport in the US. As long as Football, Baseball, Basketball and Hockey are around then you will be challenged to get the best athletes in on the field for soccer. What is the #1 sport in Brazil? Spain? Italy? Germany? Answer: Soccer.