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    #76
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    OP again. Thanks for the response.

    Can you explain what is considered a small club/large club?

    I know you said Maple, but when I go the Maple website and type in my zip code I get a list of teams - some of which are Stars and NEFC teams.

    I thought both Stars and NEFC were big clubs? Or am I wrong here?

    The other teams seem to be town/community teams with a relationship to their respective town soccer program.

    While the websites say tryouts are open to surrounding communities, I wonder whether the team ends up being most of the kids from that town.

    I don't think my son would like playing for a club team where all the kids were from the same town and already knew each other.

    He did a LAX clinic where that happened and he felt completely left out. It was him and then the other towns LAX team and coach.

    He recently quit LAX this season to pursue more soccer opportunities.
    A large club is one that has teams in every age group thru u17. Most large clubs have this for both boys and girls. The 2 clubs you mention would both be regarded as large clubs. Some large clubs have multiple teams in an age group as well. You can get a spirited debate about whether it's worthwhile to be below the first team at a club, but at a minimum, you just want to know whether that's the situation or not.

    Comment


      #77
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      A large club is one that has teams in every age group thru u17. Most large clubs have this for both boys and girls. The 2 clubs you mention would both be regarded as large clubs. Some large clubs have multiple teams in an age group as well. You can get a spirited debate about whether it's worthwhile to be below the first team at a club, but at a minimum, you just want to know whether that's the situation or not.
      Ok thanks. I understand that there are 2 and sometimes 3 teams/levels per age group. And I definitely understand the issues/concerns some have with being below the "elite" team.

      At this point in time, that's not a huge concern for me (where he's placed) provided he falls in the middle of the pack on his team, the players want to and can play, and the coaching is better then he is getting now at the town rec/travel level.

      Comment


        #78
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        OP again. Thanks for the response.

        Can you explain what is considered a small club/large club?

        I know you said Maple, but when I go the Maple website and type in my zip code I get a list of teams - some of which are Stars and NEFC teams.

        I thought both Stars and NEFC were big clubs? Or am I wrong here?

        The other teams seem to be town/community teams with a relationship to their respective town soccer program.

        While the websites say tryouts are open to surrounding communities, I wonder whether the team ends up being most of the kids from that town.

        I don't think my son would like playing for a club team where all the kids were from the same town and already knew each other.

        He did a LAX clinic where that happened and he felt completely left out. It was him and then the other towns LAX team and coach.

        He recently quit LAX this season to pursue more soccer opportunities.
        Most teams at the start begin with large concentrations of players from specific towns but as time marches on those demographics change tremendously. My daughter is on a team that basically had players from 3 town programs when it was formed at U11. That team is now in high school and there are only 3 players left from the original group. None of which live in the same town. We now have players travelling from different states (plural) to be on the team.

        Until you have a clear picture just how important soccer is for your son (believe it or not, it will likely change dramatically a couple of times by the time he graduates from high school) there is no reason to accelerate your involvement. The most important thing you can do for him right now is feed HIS passion for the game. Find a good, wholesome, environment that will allow him to do what he wants to do, play as much soccer as he can. The rest of the BS (ie travel) that comes with club soccer just minimizes the amount of time he can spend doing what he loves.

        Comment


          #79
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          The most important thing you can do for him right now is feed HIS passion for the game. Find a good, wholesome, environment that will allow him to do what he wants to do, play as much soccer as he can. The rest of the BS (ie travel) that comes with club soccer just minimizes the amount of time he can spend doing what he loves.
          Completely agree with you, but how to do that?

          Without getting into the entire story, he was misplaced on his town rec/travel team this year. He is the strongest player amongst a mixed group that are either there for the social aspect of it or because their parents make them play.

          Looking at the teams above him, and his own interest level, we've recently come to the conclusion that it wouldn't matter if he was on those teams or not. Some of the kids are slightly better skill wise, but none seem to love the game as much as he does. He's the only kid that stays after practice (and 6 hour daily soccer camp last week) to dribble, juggle and shoot more.

          I even tried to put a team together this past winter for indoor soccer, polled his entire grade, and only had a handful of takers. He ended up playing up on my other sons U12 team I put together.

          The other issue is that the coaches are all parent volunteers. Some played soccer in HS, none in college. Most are there for their kids and treat it as what it is - rec soccer.

          So our interest in club came from our son asking to play club. He wants to play with players that are serious about the game and have some skill. He wants a practice where he is learning skills and not just scrimmaging all the time.

          I completely recognize that he is 9 and his interests may change over the years ahead. However, right now (and for the past 1.5 years) he's all soccer all the time. So for now, we are trying to give him the opportunity to play at a higher level and learn more than he's getting.

          I totally get the politics and hassle surrounding club. To be honest, I was never a club fan when I heard others talking about it. However, now I'm faced with a kid that wants more.

          So, aside from club soccer, what is there?

          Comment


            #80
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Here is a dilemma. At U9 and U10 is it necessary, or even important, to make a travel team before proving yourself worthy of playing on a club team? I am not doubting the veracity in your comment with regard to throwing money at an entity that will not be worthwhile in the end. This is why I stated earlier that do not have the expectation that you will ever get your moneys worth based on obtaining athletic scholarships or national/professional team invites.

            Training and education are always best when started when the system is most impressionable. What if your kid is a decent athlete but has simply not played enough soccer to make the town travel team at U10?? Do you wait a year or two before considering club soccer or do you invest early and try to develop what you can as soon as you can.......for at least 2000 dollars per year.....even if it means being on the B or C team of NEFC or MPS?

            I submit that it might be worth it early on and then reassess than to do it later and wish you had started earlier.
            Most large and mid-sized clubs have youth academy programs that start kids playing in an organized fashion at age 7. The cost to participate in these programs is probably in the $250 to $500 range depending club and location. I would not wait. The impact of this kind of training on a young child is easily observable. It may not lead to the almight win in his/her town programs where it's all about kicking it far and running fast, but technically they'll have a significant leg up on their competitors.

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Completely agree with you, but how to do that?

              Without getting into the entire story, he was misplaced on his town rec/travel team this year. He is the strongest player amongst a mixed group that are either there for the social aspect of it or because their parents make them play.

              Looking at the teams above him, and his own interest level, we've recently come to the conclusion that it wouldn't matter if he was on those teams or not. Some of the kids are slightly better skill wise, but none seem to love the game as much as he does. He's the only kid that stays after practice (and 6 hour daily soccer camp last week) to dribble, juggle and shoot more.

              I even tried to put a team together this past winter for indoor soccer, polled his entire grade, and only had a handful of takers. He ended up playing up on my other sons U12 team I put together.

              The other issue is that the coaches are all parent volunteers. Some played soccer in HS, none in college. Most are there for their kids and treat it as what it is - rec soccer.

              So our interest in club came from our son asking to play club. He wants to play with players that are serious about the game and have some skill. He wants a practice where he is learning skills and not just scrimmaging all the time.

              I completely recognize that he is 9 and his interests may change over the years ahead. However, right now (and for the past 1.5 years) he's all soccer all the time. So for now, we are trying to give him the opportunity to play at a higher level and learn more than he's getting.

              I totally get the politics and hassle surrounding club. To be honest, I was never a club fan when I heard others talking about it. However, now I'm faced with a kid that wants more.

              So, aside from club soccer, what is there?
              I don't mean this in a harsh way, but what you describe is really all what youth soccer is. It is not any easier to walk through the maze club soccer than what you describe doing on the town side. Just more expensive and in most cases you are not really going to find that much of an improvement in the commitment level, especially at the age your son is at. You might have already found your solution by putting indoor teams together and playing your son up. I would suggest they you put him in more clinics/camps so he gets exposed to decent coaching and then try to find other opportunities for him to keep playing over the summer (even if it is just a bunch pickup games), you don't need to just jump right to the club scene.

              Comment


                #82
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Completely agree with you, but how to do that?

                Without getting into the entire story, he was misplaced on his town rec/travel team this year. He is the strongest player amongst a mixed group that are either there for the social aspect of it or because their parents make them play.

                Looking at the teams above him, and his own interest level, we've recently come to the conclusion that it wouldn't matter if he was on those teams or not. Some of the kids are slightly better skill wise, but none seem to love the game as much as he does. He's the only kid that stays after practice (and 6 hour daily soccer camp last week) to dribble, juggle and shoot more.

                I even tried to put a team together this past winter for indoor soccer, polled his entire grade, and only had a handful of takers. He ended up playing up on my other sons U12 team I put together.

                The other issue is that the coaches are all parent volunteers. Some played soccer in HS, none in college. Most are there for their kids and treat it as what it is - rec soccer.

                So our interest in club came from our son asking to play club. He wants to play with players that are serious about the game and have some skill. He wants a practice where he is learning skills and not just scrimmaging all the time.

                I completely recognize that he is 9 and his interests may change over the years ahead. However, right now (and for the past 1.5 years) he's all soccer all the time. So for now, we are trying to give him the opportunity to play at a higher level and learn more than he's getting.

                I totally get the politics and hassle surrounding club. To be honest, I was never a club fan when I heard others talking about it. However, now I'm faced with a kid that wants more.

                So, aside from club soccer, what is there?
                Pure psychopathy.

                Comment


                  #83
                  Convicted felons should not be allowed around children and youth sports

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    I don't mean this in a harsh way, but what you describe is really all what youth soccer is. It is not any easier to walk through the maze club soccer than what you describe doing on the town side. Just more expensive and in most cases you are not really going to find that much of an improvement in the commitment level, especially at the age your son is at. You might have already found your solution by putting indoor teams together and playing your son up. I would suggest they you put him in more clinics/camps so he gets exposed to decent coaching and then try to find other opportunities for him to keep playing over the summer (even if it is just a bunch pickup games), you don't need to just jump right to the club scene.
                    Not harsh at all. Thank you for the response and advice.

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Completely agree with you, but how to do that?

                      Without getting into the entire story, he was misplaced on his town rec/travel team this year. He is the strongest player amongst a mixed group that are either there for the social aspect of it or because their parents make them play.

                      Looking at the teams above him, and his own interest level, we've recently come to the conclusion that it wouldn't matter if he was on those teams or not. Some of the kids are slightly better skill wise, but none seem to love the game as much as he does. He's the only kid that stays after practice (and 6 hour daily soccer camp last week) to dribble, juggle and shoot more.

                      I even tried to put a team together this past winter for indoor soccer, polled his entire grade, and only had a handful of takers. He ended up playing up on my other sons U12 team I put together.

                      The other issue is that the coaches are all parent volunteers. Some played soccer in HS, none in college. Most are there for their kids and treat it as what it is - rec soccer.

                      So our interest in club came from our son asking to play club. He wants to play with players that are serious about the game and have some skill. He wants a practice where he is learning skills and not just scrimmaging all the time.

                      I completely recognize that he is 9 and his interests may change over the years ahead. However, right now (and for the past 1.5 years) he's all soccer all the time. So for now, we are trying to give him the opportunity to play at a higher level and learn more than he's getting.

                      I totally get the politics and hassle surrounding club. To be honest, I was never a club fan when I heard others talking about it. However, now I'm faced with a kid that wants more.

                      So, aside from club soccer, what is there?
                      From what you describe, a club is the thing for your son. Let me go further and suggest a large club, for 2 reasons: first, part of your concern is coaching. It's more likely that the large clubs will require coaches to have relatively high credentials in becoming a coach as a profession. It's more likely that small clubs will be lead by someone who loves the game and played at a relatively high level. This generalization may draw some attacks, but take it as a generalization, because certainly there are excellent coaches at small clubs and weak coaches at big clubs. Second, as you've learned, the tryout process is imperfect. At a large club, if it becomes apparent that a player was mis-assigned to too low a team, it's possible to shift him to the appropriate team. But do not take this to mean that it's easy to play your way up from a lower to higher team within a club. As many have observed, most new players to a first team come from outside the club.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        Completely agree with you, but how to do that?

                        Without getting into the entire story, he was misplaced on his town rec/travel team this year. He is the strongest player amongst a mixed group that are either there for the social aspect of it or because their parents make them play.

                        Looking at the teams above him, and his own interest level, we've recently come to the conclusion that it wouldn't matter if he was on those teams or not. Some of the kids are slightly better skill wise, but none seem to love the game as much as he does. He's the only kid that stays after practice (and 6 hour daily soccer camp last week) to dribble, juggle and shoot more.

                        I even tried to put a team together this past winter for indoor soccer, polled his entire grade, and only had a handful of takers. He ended up playing up on my other sons U12 team I put together.

                        The other issue is that the coaches are all parent volunteers. Some played soccer in HS, none in college. Most are there for their kids and treat it as what it is - rec soccer.

                        So our interest in club came from our son asking to play club. He wants to play with players that are serious about the game and have some skill. He wants a practice where he is learning skills and not just scrimmaging all the time.

                        I completely recognize that he is 9 and his interests may change over the years ahead. However, right now (and for the past 1.5 years) he's all soccer all the time. So for now, we are trying to give him the opportunity to play at a higher level and learn more than he's getting.

                        I totally get the politics and hassle surrounding club. To be honest, I was never a club fan when I heard others talking about it. However, now I'm faced with a kid that wants more.

                        So, aside from club soccer, what is there?
                        I think this is where town travel soccer is missing a golden opportunity. I think most towns could run a pseudo-club. Have the kids do an extra practice and then create a "premier team" of Team 1 and Team 2 players and play that team in Maple on Sunday's.

                        I would probably hire a college player at $20/hr. So for short money most larger towns could offer a reasonable "club experience".

                        Then if the town got better at running this, it could turn into a Sachem, AB, Sudbury type club.

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          I think this is where town travel soccer is missing a golden opportunity. I think most towns could run a pseudo-club. Have the kids do an extra practice and then create a "premier team" of Team 1 and Team 2 players and play that team in Maple on Sunday's.

                          I would probably hire a college player at $20/hr. So for short money most larger towns could offer a reasonable "club experience".

                          Then if the town got better at running this, it could turn into a Sachem, AB, Sudbury type club.
                          Newton United, Dorchester Youth Soccer, etc. It's been happening in Maple for years.

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            I think this is where town travel soccer is missing a golden opportunity. I think most towns could run a pseudo-club. Have the kids do an extra practice and then create a "premier team" of Team 1 and Team 2 players and play that team in Maple on Sunday's.

                            I would probably hire a college player at $20/hr. So for short money most larger towns could offer a reasonable "club experience".

                            Then if the town got better at running this, it could turn into a Sachem, AB, Sudbury type club.
                            The problem is the town programs aren't "sexy" enough for most parents, nor do they cater to parents like the club teams do.

                            The really amusing thing is once you start watching high school age soccer you realize that at best most towns only turn out 1-2 above average soccer players in any one particular age group (often times none at all) yet we have seem to have legions of parents who think that whole age groups are somehow uniquely gifted so they flood club soccer programs looking for the holy grail.

                            Comment


                              #89
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              The problem is the town programs aren't "sexy" enough for most parents, nor do they cater to parents like the club teams do.

                              The really amusing thing is once you start watching high school age soccer you realize that at best most towns only turn out 1-2 above average soccer players in any one particular age group (often times none at all) yet we have seem to have legions of parents who think that whole age groups are somehow uniquely gifted so they flood club soccer programs looking for the holy grail.
                              Definitely a glass half-empty day....and negativity gone wild.

                              Comment


                                #90
                                Originally posted by perspective View Post
                                Definitely a glass half-empty day....and negativity gone wild.
                                That is because you identify with the guy who buys the 25 cent solution for the 2 cent problem. No matter how you label the line on the glass, the line is still there. 99% of the club soccer players don't actually end up wanting or needing anything more than a town level soccer program to fulfill their soccer desires yet they still flood high priced club soccer programs. Call it negativity if you want but the math is very simple. Most towns start out with large numbers of soccer players when the kids are real young and that only nets out 5-6 kids that end up playing soccer all the way through high school. If the town is lucky 1-2 of those may end up being pretty good. The crazy part about club soccer is they have a lot of people convinced that the entire town U12 "A" team is gifted and talented and destined to not only play all the way through to their senior year but also make all conference. Some see that is realism rather than negativity.

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