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Questions to all ECNL parents who have daughters riding the pine

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    #16
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    My daughter has played in both at the top levels and they both suck here in Oregon. .
    You can only play local club soccer and for your HS in Oregon on the girls side of things. (Didn't throw ODP into this discussion, but it's another platform)

    So, I don't understand what you're referring to when you say 'my daughter has played in both, (HS & Club?) at the top levels and they both suck here in Oregon (HS and Club Soccer Sucks?)

    Girls have never had a DA until this coming year, so nobody has ever played at that level yet.

    Comment


      #17
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      Spare me the "development" rhetoric, the Academy rhetoric, as well as the ECNL vs GDA controversy. We've had enough of Oregon coaches saying that they develop players. My daughter has played in both at the top levels and they both suck here in Oregon. I don't disagree with you that GDA is the future (not now!) but it is the path to go.
      The problem is, has been and will always be that Oregon eats its soccer young. Honestly, think about it. PDA/PDP at 7 and 8 yoa. Then on to the U11 team, where your child will play with some of their "besties" and be happy, and even love the game. Then, U12....where it all changes. ODP, NWSL, FWRL, ODp...kids gain exposure and their parents see the BRIGHT LIGHTS and realize that this is it! Their child is a prodigy, and of course they just need to make a move to a better club who can help the prodigy reach their potential. Sadly, all that happens is that a bunch of insincere and fast talking coaches tell the kids and parents what they want to hear and in essence convince the poor lemmings that they are the ticket to their child's future. ECNL was around first, and it was quickly dismissed as the Malibu Barbie option. Of course, this not far off the mark, as the team's are not all that racially diverse. So, right away ECNL is marginalized. Then the Thorns academy....Well, clearly the Timbers/Thorns are involved, so it is not trustworthy. Of course the TA is where all the poor but more athletic kids go to play. So far superior to ECNL. Now GDA....however, our young 11 year old girls are now 16-17 and some are burned out on soccer, but hanging in because what else can they do? What is their identity without soccer? They have been devoted, sacrificed, and committed to a way of life that has so far resulted in being that they play for the wrong team, wrong coach, wrong league, and oh wait for it.. the wrong state.

      This is exactly where a lot of people reading this are right now. Their daughter is a sophomore/Freshman. Most of these girls played high school soccer last year and enjoyed it. Sure, the soccer was not great. The conditioning was more along the lines of a 1950's football training camp program, and the style of play was kick it and run...but the girls had fun and enjoyed themselves. Why? Because for the first time they were not playing for a club. They were not a consumer who could chase a coach, or a club, or a league. They just... played for their school with old and new friends. I am more concerned that my daughter still enjoys soccer at 20 years of age, than I am if she is still playing. Our daughter's should be the focus. Not the club...not the coach...not the...league...not the state. Think back to juice boxes, apple slices and Graham Crackers. I bet you smile when you think of those days. Girl power...matching ir bands, or bows. That is real soccer.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        If your daughter is not 1-14 at the ECNL level then all of the left overs at the DA will really be 14-30 so take your pick. Play with good players and get better or play of leftovers and mediocre talent at the DA.
        This is the unfortunate thing, players 1-14 are not the top players. A few never were and play time was heavily parent influenced. Maybe six are that good..the rest who were good last July are not looking good anymore. Zero growth while others who have sought outside training have grown.

        Comment


          #19
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          If your daughter is not 1-14 at the ECNL level then all of the left overs at the DA will really be 14-30 so take your pick. Play with good players and get better or play of leftovers and mediocre talent at the DA.
          I agree that if your daughter is a pine rider on ECNL, she will most likely be a pine rider at GDA. GDA already has their positions on the field picked, however they really haven't had competition all year since last year was experimental. How will they do this coming year against all the other DA teams? Don't know. The true measure will be how they do against the DA teams in CA, WA, and TX.

          Your advice to play with good players and get better is sound, but is it worth all the travel costs and membership fees if your daughter is a pine rider? How will that help her get on a college team? You aren't answering my question.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Here are some lessons learned from our daughter playing ECNL in Oregon:

            1. If your daughter is not ranked 1-14, then don't pay for the program or the travel. Try to get an answer from the coach after tryouts on where he/she will rank your daughter.
            2. The purpose of ECNL is to get players college soccer opportunities. We strongly believe that ECNL gives players the exposure (thru away games and showcases) they need for college. So, if your daughters are riding the pine, they will not get the exposure because the college coaches will not see your daughter play.
            3. Oregon ECNL rosters range anywhere from 20 to 25 players but the coaches consistently play the #1-#14 players. Don't pay for a program where your daughter isn't getting the experience of playing at a high level. They are just used as practice players for players 1-14, but they won't be prepared for college level soccer because they aren't playing in the games.
            4. If your ECNL daughter is riding the pine, like our daughter is, you are just subsidizing the costs for the #1-#14 players. If you see the roster sizes for the other ECNL clubs, you'll see at the most, 17 or 18 players. They are selective. it's a money grab for Oregon ECNL clubs.
            5. Politics are quite heavy here in Oregon. We observed that some very talented players are riding the pine while some less talented ones are getting more playing time due to connections their parents have with the coaches. Work at Nike? Great, you're in! parent is on the board? Check, you're in. Rich family or your parents were some standout athlete? Great, you're in.

            So, my questions, to all those ECNL families who have daughters as benchwarmers, what are you going to do for upcoming tryouts? Will you still move forward with the ECNL program even if your daughter isn't getting the experience in the games? What non-ECNL clubs will you try out for that has programs that travel to showcases and tournaments?
            Maybe ECNL isn't the answer if your daughter is riding the pine. ECNL competition is not for the faint of heart. GDA may be a better options because not that many top level clubs are joining so your daughter may thrive in the lower tier of players, but then you have to balance no Hs sports

            Comment


              #21
              My non expert thoughts on this

              For what it's worth, I am immediately suspicious of any post where the OP states that his kid isn't getting playing time due to politics or favoritism or whatever. I think it's entirely likely that his kid just isn't playing at the level of her teammates, and mom/dad can't see it due to their understandable parental bias.

              If that's the case, then this parent needs to take a step back and re-examine his/her priorities and how they mesh with the player's priorities. Player is happy on the team with her friends? You can afford ECNL? I'm not sure why to change then - except that it seems like PARENTS are not happy watching her not play much. Does player have the desire to get better and earn more playing time, or is she content just being on the team? This is an important distinction.

              None of the above can be solved by hopping to the (alleged) greener grass of GDA. There's a girl on the younger academy team who left CU's ECNL team due to lack of playing time caused by "poor coaching decisions." She is now riding the pine (OP's words, not mine - I don't like that phrase) at GDA and didn't even travel with them to Vancouver. In her case, all changing clubs did was reinforce that whatever the ECNL coaches were seeing that they didn't like, the academy coaches are seeing too. That requires a bit of self-reflection and humility to digest and process, and if the parents' constant knee-jerk reaction is to hop to another team when things get tough, you will experience very little growth - both as a soccer player and as a person.

              Now, the original question is - is it better to be a bench player on an ECNL team or a GDA team? Keeping in mind that fit and chemistry and what works for a family are all important and very individualized things to consider, I would say ECNL - because their substitution rules are more liberal, meaning you have more opportunities to get in the game even briefly; because with the expense of travel there's a chance you'll get to play if teammates opt out of a trip due to cost (crass, but it's a reality); and because with the clubs playing in the ECNL league having OYSA teams, there are playing opportunities besides the ECNL team. With GDA, only 14 girls will play in every game and if you aren't close to top 14, you may rarely play; with free travel no one will be opting out of trips; and with no "lower" team, you have no other place to play but on the GDA team.

              If the kid has more friends on the GDA squad, and wants to play there, and doesn't care about playing time, OR they want to play on one of the three "elite" clubs in the state, and finances are an issue, I think GDA would be a better choice.

              My two cents...

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                The problem is, has been and will always be that Oregon eats its soccer young. Honestly, think about it. PDA/PDP at 7 and 8 yoa. Then on to the U11 team, where your child will play with some of their "besties" and be happy, and even love the game. Then, U12....where it all changes. ODP, NWSL, FWRL, ODp...kids gain exposure and their parents see the BRIGHT LIGHTS and realize that this is it! Their child is a prodigy, and of course they just need to make a move to a better club who can help the prodigy reach their potential. Sadly, all that happens is that a bunch of insincere and fast talking coaches tell the kids and parents what they want to hear and in essence convince the poor lemmings that they are the ticket to their child's future. ECNL was around first, and it was quickly dismissed as the Malibu Barbie option. Of course, this not far off the mark, as the team's are not all that racially diverse. So, right away ECNL is marginalized. Then the Thorns academy....Well, clearly the Timbers/Thorns are involved, so it is not trustworthy. Of course the TA is where all the poor but more athletic kids go to play. So far superior to ECNL. Now GDA....however, our young 11 year old girls are now 16-17 and some are burned out on soccer, but hanging in because what else can they do? What is their identity without soccer? They have been devoted, sacrificed, and committed to a way of life that has so far resulted in being that they play for the wrong team, wrong coach, wrong league, and oh wait for it.. the wrong state.

                This is exactly where a lot of people reading this are right now. Their daughter is a sophomore/Freshman. Most of these girls played high school soccer last year and enjoyed it. Sure, the soccer was not great. The conditioning was more along the lines of a 1950's football training camp program, and the style of play was kick it and run...but the girls had fun and enjoyed themselves. Why? Because for the first time they were not playing for a club. They were not a consumer who could chase a coach, or a club, or a league. They just... played for their school with old and new friends. I am more concerned that my daughter still enjoys soccer at 20 years of age, than I am if she is still playing. Our daughter's should be the focus. Not the club...not the coach...not the...league...not the state. Think back to juice boxes, apple slices and Graham Crackers. I bet you smile when you think of those days. Girl power...matching ir bands, or bows. That is real soccer.
                Your are talking about 99.5% of all registerd Oregon Youth Soccer players and this model you describe works perfectly for them.

                The USDA program for Oregon is offered only by the MLS Timbers & NWSL Thorns, guess what..wait for it...they aren't interested in the 99.5% just the .5% so all is good.

                Unless you think the .5% should be placed in the model you outlined, if so why?

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  For what it's worth, I am immediately suspicious of any post where the OP states that his kid isn't getting playing time due to politics or favoritism or whatever. I think it's entirely likely that his kid just isn't playing at the level of her teammates, and mom/dad can't see it due to their understandable parental bias.

                  If that's the case, then this parent needs to take a step back and re-examine his/her priorities and how they mesh with the player's priorities. Player is happy on the team with her friends? You can afford ECNL? I'm not sure why to change then - except that it seems like PARENTS are not happy watching her not play much. Does player have the desire to get better and earn more playing time, or is she content just being on the team? This is an important distinction.

                  None of the above can be solved by hopping to the (alleged) greener grass of GDA. There's a girl on the younger academy team who left CU's ECNL team due to lack of playing time caused by "poor coaching decisions." She is now riding the pine (OP's words, not mine - I don't like that phrase) at GDA and didn't even travel with them to Vancouver. In her case, all changing clubs did was reinforce that whatever the ECNL coaches were seeing that they didn't like, the academy coaches are seeing too. That requires a bit of self-reflection and humility to digest and process, and if the parents' constant knee-jerk reaction is to hop to another team when things get tough, you will experience very little growth - both as a soccer player and as a person.

                  Now, the original question is - is it better to be a bench player on an ECNL team or a GDA team? Keeping in mind that fit and chemistry and what works for a family are all important and very individualized things to consider, I would say ECNL - because their substitution rules are more liberal, meaning you have more opportunities to get in the game even briefly; because with the expense of travel there's a chance you'll get to play if teammates opt out of a trip due to cost (crass, but it's a reality); and because with the clubs playing in the ECNL league having OYSA teams, there are playing opportunities besides the ECNL team. With GDA, only 14 girls will play in every game and if you aren't close to top 14, you may rarely play; with free travel no one will be opting out of trips; and with no "lower" team, you have no other place to play but on the GDA team.

                  If the kid has more friends on the GDA squad, and wants to play there, and doesn't care about playing time, OR they want to play on one of the three "elite" clubs in the state, and finances are an issue, I think GDA would be a better choice.

                  My two cents...
                  Important here to point out there currently is no GDA and the Thorns are not playing GDA or in a GDA league. GDA is a whole different US Soccer program and the teams are not yet formed.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    Important here to point out there currently is no GDA and the Thorns are not playing GDA or in a GDA league. GDA is a whole different US Soccer program and the teams are not yet formed.
                    Correct. I made my comments based on the online info Thorns GDA has provided and GDA has provided. Limited substitutions following international rules, free travel, etc. I guess we really won't know what it will look like til it happens.

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      All of the above are true unfortunately and we have heard the same things about parent politics. Our daughter is not 1-14 but has played in a few games. We are looking at GDA option closely although she may not want to leave her friends.
                      If she's not playing much in ECNL, you better hope she's top 10 material at GDA as the GDA has even harsher substitution rules (only 14 players can even play in any game). GDA competition level is significantly lower than ECNL so that might help her get some PT.

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        For what it's worth, I am immediately suspicious of any post where the OP states that his kid isn't getting playing time due to politics or favoritism or whatever. I think it's entirely likely that his kid just isn't playing at the level of her teammates, and mom/dad can't see it due to their understandable parental bias.

                        If that's the case, then this parent needs to take a step back and re-examine his/her priorities and how they mesh with the player's priorities. Player is happy on the team with her friends? You can afford ECNL? I'm not sure why to change then - except that it seems like PARENTS are not happy watching her not play much. Does player have the desire to get better and earn more playing time, or is she content just being on the team? This is an important distinction.

                        None of the above can be solved by hopping to the (alleged) greener grass of GDA. There's a girl on the younger academy team who left CU's ECNL team due to lack of playing time caused by "poor coaching decisions." She is now riding the pine (OP's words, not mine - I don't like that phrase) at GDA and didn't even travel with them to Vancouver. In her case, all changing clubs did was reinforce that whatever the ECNL coaches were seeing that they didn't like, the academy coaches are seeing too. That requires a bit of self-reflection and humility to digest and process, and if the parents' constant knee-jerk reaction is to hop to another team when things get tough, you will experience very little growth - both as a soccer player and as a person.

                        Now, the original question is - is it better to be a bench player on an ECNL team or a GDA team? Keeping in mind that fit and chemistry and what works for a family are all important and very individualized things to consider, I would say ECNL - because their substitution rules are more liberal, meaning you have more opportunities to get in the game even briefly; because with the expense of travel there's a chance you'll get to play if teammates opt out of a trip due to cost (crass, but it's a reality); and because with the clubs playing in the ECNL league having OYSA teams, there are playing opportunities besides the ECNL team. With GDA, only 14 girls will play in every game and if you aren't close to top 14, you may rarely play; with free travel no one will be opting out of trips; and with no "lower" team, you have no other place to play but on the GDA team.

                        If the kid has more friends on the GDA squad, and wants to play there, and doesn't care about playing time, OR they want to play on one of the three "elite" clubs in the state, and finances are an issue, I think GDA would be a better choice.

                        My two cents...
                        And here are another two cents: get realistic, if you just saved the 10k and had her play club instead of ECNL and or GDA (which her level of play and ability fits) you would have the equivalent of the scholarship you are hoping to get in your pocket already and it can be used at whatever college fits her academic ability and career path, which obviously won't be soccer. This may be perceived as harsh and mean, but at some point reality needs to set in for both the parents and the player. She will develop much better with playing time anyway

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          And here are another two cents: get realistic, if you just saved the 10k and had her play club instead of ECNL and or GDA (which her level of play and ability fits) you would have the equivalent of the scholarship you are hoping to get in your pocket already and it can be used at whatever college fits her academic ability and career path, which obviously won't be soccer. This may be perceived as harsh and mean, but at some point reality needs to set in for both the parents and the player. She will develop much better with playing time anyway
                          This is a fine perspective, but why keep exaggerating ECNL cost? We haven't paid more than $5500. It isn't cheap and for now we are ok with expense (also don't judge who go a different way); just don't understand why anyone would exaggerate the cost.

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Your are talking about 99.5% of all registerd Oregon Youth Soccer players and this model you describe works perfectly for them.

                            The USDA program for Oregon is offered only by the MLS Timbers & NWSL Thorns, guess what..wait for it...they aren't interested in the 99.5% just the .5% so all is good.

                            Unless you think the .5% should be placed in the model you outlined, if so why?
                            Technically, GDA is interested in the top .5% in the USA, NOT the .5% from each state. If all the top .5% come from CA, so be it. Sadly, only maybe 1 girl at each age group is close to the top .5% nationally. So, yes, the OP is basically correct because Oregon doesn't really have any of the top .5% players that GDA is interested in.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              This is a fine perspective, but why keep exaggerating ECNL cost? We haven't paid more than $5500. It isn't cheap and for now we are ok with expense (also don't judge who go a different way); just don't understand why anyone would exaggerate the cost.
                              Sounds like you are not traveling to all the games which is on. Just save the 5000 it's more than you will get for a soccer scholarship anyway...

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                GDA competition level is significantly lower than ECNL so that might help her get some PT.
                                Not necessarily. Look at both Seattle Reign and Crossfire Premiere up in Washington. Both handily beat Oregon ECNL clubs and both are moving into the future that is GDA. While Crossgire is keeping an ECNL option in their arsenal they have moved all their top coaches to the GDA side.

                                Comment

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