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Handball/pk or not?

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    #31
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Boys game and the player is part of a wall just inside the 18, to block a free kick. The player places his arms in front of his body to protect his manhood. The ball is drilled right at his nuts and contacts his hand which never moved. PK or not?
    Never seen it called. I suppose the argument was they covered up first, before it was hit, not after.

    Valid point though.

    Comment


      #32
      Below is the reference to handling the ball in Law 12 from http://www.theifab.com. Using the example of a man covering his manhood, if his hands are stationary prior to the ball being kicked and do not move towards the ball, not handling.

      Same would go for a woman covering her chest prior to the ball being kicked. But the problem is if she moves her hands to her chest after the ball is kicked. That would constitute handling.

      That being said, in a U14 game if the hands are tight to the chest where the player isn't making herself bigger and she was within 10 yds of where the shot was taken, I'd most likely indicate play on.

      HANDLING THE BALL

      Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm.

      The following must be considered:

      the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
      the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
      the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement
      touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.) is an infringement
      hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) is an infringement

      Comment


        #33
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        Hardball, sorry and not harsh at all!!
        I think the consensus is that it's up to the ref's discression. The rules don't clearly indicate how it should be ruled, some will call it and some won't.

        Comment


          #34
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Below is the reference to handling the ball in Law 12 from http://www.theifab.com. Using the example of a man covering his manhood, if his hands are stationary prior to the ball being kicked and do not move towards the ball, not handling.

          Same would go for a woman covering her chest prior to the ball being kicked. But the problem is if she moves her hands to her chest after the ball is kicked. That would constitute handling.

          That being said, in a U14 game if the hands are tight to the chest where the player isn't making herself bigger and she was within 10 yds of where the shot was taken, I'd most likely indicate play on.

          HANDLING THE BALL

          Handling the ball involves a deliberate act of a player making contact with the ball with the hand or arm.

          The following must be considered:

          the movement of the hand towards the ball (not the ball towards the hand)
          the distance between the opponent and the ball (unexpected ball)
          the position of the hand does not necessarily mean that there is an infringement
          touching the ball with an object held in the hand (clothing, shinguard, etc.) is an infringement
          hitting the ball with a thrown object (boot, shinguard, etc.) is an infringement
          The only thing I strongly disagree with is that "But the problem is if she moves her hands to her chest after the ball is kicked" NECESSARILY constitutes handling. In the context of all that has been provided, that distinction of the player's movement commencing before or after the ball being kicked doesn't seem to be at all relevant, just as whether the ball was traveling faster or slower than an arbitrary speed from closer or further away from a certain arbitrary distance.

          It is the official's judgment and I don't see how, as described and in context, as you note (U14, etc.), that a referee has been reasonable and exercised proper judgment by calling a handling violation. No intent, no advantage, etc., play on.

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            The only thing I strongly disagree with is that "But the problem is if she moves her hands to her chest after the ball is kicked" NECESSARILY constitutes handling. In the context of all that has been provided, that distinction of the player's movement commencing before or after the ball being kicked doesn't seem to be at all relevant, just as whether the ball was traveling faster or slower than an arbitrary speed from closer or further away from a certain arbitrary distance.

            It is the official's judgment and I don't see how, as described and in context, as you note (U14, etc.), that a referee has been reasonable and exercised proper judgment by calling a handling violation. No intent, no advantage, etc., play on.
            The distance of the person to the ball is absolutely a factor. The closer the person is to the ball the more likely it's not a handling call

            I suspect in this case the person in the judgement of the ref had ample time to avoid the contact.

            Comment


              #36
              I second this comment. The law of the game states that a hand ball has to either be deliberate or arms in an unnatural position. In this scenario, assuming there was very little time to react, when the hands move does not matter. Assuming the arms stayed in a natural position, not wider or up over the body, reflexes are not deliberate. Most reflexes do not even involve the brain; they are fast, involuntary responses that travel over what is known as a reflex arc.

              With the little bit of information offered, I've got a play on here.

              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              The only thing I strongly disagree with is that "But the problem is if she moves her hands to her chest after the ball is kicked" NECESSARILY constitutes handling. In the context of all that has been provided, that distinction of the player's movement commencing before or after the ball being kicked doesn't seem to be at all relevant, just as whether the ball was traveling faster or slower than an arbitrary speed from closer or further away from a certain arbitrary distance.

              It is the official's judgment and I don't see how, as described and in context, as you note (U14, etc.), that a referee has been reasonable and exercised proper judgment by calling a handling violation. No intent, no advantage, etc., play on.

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Clear handball. Kid should have just moved out of the way (think about that for a moment).
                Why would she opt to move out the way....maybe coach should work with her not to be ball shy...Just sayin.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  Why would she opt to move out the way....maybe coach should work with her not to be ball shy...Just sayin.
                  Moved her arms ...

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    I second this comment. The law of the game states that a hand ball has to either be deliberate or arms in an unnatural position. In this scenario, assuming there was very little time to react, when the hands move does not matter. Assuming the arms stayed in a natural position, not wider or up over the body, reflexes are not deliberate. Most reflexes do not even involve the brain; they are fast, involuntary responses that travel over what is known as a reflex arc.

                    With the little bit of information offered, I've got a play on here.
                    Why would you assume that there was little time to react

                    Facts

                    - Shot was taken from 25 yards out.
                    - Foul was inside the penalty area.
                    - Penalty area is 18 yards long
                    - Minimum there was 7 yards with maximum of 25 yards of space.

                    If offender was standing on say 6 or 9 yard area, there would be 19 to 16 yards of space. If they were standing 12 yards off the goal line there would have been 13 yards of space. In either three scenarios there would have enough time to move arms.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Moved her arms ...
                      Much easier to move an arm 6" than an entire body. Plus, she should be looking to block it, not get out of the way. If she kept her arms close to her body in the process and would've hit her chest anyway, I said nice block.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        Why would you assume that there was little time to react

                        Facts

                        - Shot was taken from 25 yards out.
                        - Foul was inside the penalty area.
                        - Penalty area is 18 yards long
                        - Minimum there was 7 yards with maximum of 25 yards of space.

                        If offender was standing on say 6 or 9 yard area, there would be 19 to 16 yards of space. If they were standing 12 yards off the goal line there would have been 13 yards of space. In either three scenarios there would have enough time to move arms.
                        There's little debate if she had time, as the OP indicated she clearly had time and did it to protect herself. Question is if by moving her arms to protect her t!ts, or let them take the force, is allowed.

                        Comment


                          #42
                          I assumed 7 or so yards. We don't have all of the facts, but players usually aren't 25 yards out with no defenders in the immediate area. If the defender were 13 or more yards away, the player probably would have continued dribbling.

                          7 or so yards is not far away at all for a hard struck ball.

                          As far as your facts, penalty was inside the penalty box, not a foul.

                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          Why would you assume that there was little time to react

                          Facts

                          - Shot was taken from 25 yards out.
                          - Foul was inside the penalty area.
                          - Penalty area is 18 yards long
                          - Minimum there was 7 yards with maximum of 25 yards of space.

                          If offender was standing on say 6 or 9 yard area, there would be 19 to 16 yards of space. If they were standing 12 yards off the goal line there would have been 13 yards of space. In either three scenarios there would have enough time to move arms.

                          Comment


                            #43
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Never seen it called. I suppose the argument was they covered up first, before it was hit, not after.

                            Valid point though.
                            Ball to hand to balls. Play on!

                            Comment


                              #44
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              The distance of the person to the ball is absolutely a factor. The closer the person is to the ball the more likely it's not a handling call

                              I suspect in this case the person in the judgement of the ref had ample time to avoid the contact.
                              I didn't say distance was not a factor.

                              Comment


                                #45
                                It's ALWAYS judgment call. This is stupid.

                                Comment

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