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Guide to the NESCACs (or I gotta fever for more NESCAC)

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    Eh -- I don't know what the point is in "ranking" the NESCAC schools. (Or the Ivies, either, for that matter...) That approach is, in my view, not at all productive.

    In any case, I do not think that the below is accurate. My evidence is that one of my kids final short list was Amherst, Brown, and Bowdoin. And he chose Bowdoin. He visited all three, along with several others that he was accepted to. He went first with me, and then went on soccer visits by himself. In the end, he just really thought Bowdoin was his best personal fit. We were confident that he could get the same education at all three, so ... he went with Bowdoin.


    My other son had declined Bowdoin and Amherst -- and had Conn, and two little schools in the Midwest left on his list. He was really expecting to go to Conn, because he really, really liked Conn's science field studies and their research program. At last minute, he decided against all of the NESCACs and went to Earlham College, because he really liked their Biology professors, their Eco-focused field research program, and was excited about their Biology-focused foreign studies. Plus, he loved how diverse the student body was.
    So, in the end, he declined all of the NESCACs ... and he is super-glad that he did.

    My opinion is that - ultimately -- "ranking" schools is not super productive.

    My advice is this:
    Don't worry about rankings. All of the "Top 50" schools offer the same superb education for undergraduates, anyway. If you DO feel the need to choose based on rankings, then find a ranking service that uses "outcomes" as their most significant metrics (US News does not.)

    Also consider:
    If your kid wants to go to grad school, there is ZERO benefit in attending an Ivy League school for his undergrad years. (If he does not want to go to grad school, then he probably is not really looking that hard at the Ivies or any of the NESCACS, anyway.

    Look:
    If all of his schools are good, solid, academic schools, then the priority should be what school is his best "fit. "
    Forget about the US News "rankings." There are much better metrics to use and way more important considerations to prioritize, anyway.



    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

    Amherst and Williams, or Williams and Amherst -- For more than a half-century, these two have alternated between #1 and #2 or tied in the USA. You can't really think of one without the other. Probably the only two LACs where you wouldn't think twice about a kid choosing them OVER an Ivy, and I don't just mean Cornell, Brown, or Dartmouth. Any superiority that Williams claims is based solely on its history of athletics dominance. I give the nod to Amherst on location. They are both the gold standard. My own bias regarding these two is that they are so intertwined with the elitism machine that one wonders how much they can allow or encourage real "outside-the-box" diversity and exploration. In terms of non-NESCAC alternatives across the country, these two really don't have any. Maybe Carleton. Maybe Pomona. Dartmouth is probably the biggest overlap.

    Bowdoin and Middlebury, or Middlebury and Bowdoin -- The closest thing to the two above. My sense is that Middlebury has maintained its spot on the doorstep of the Amherst and Williams for years, and Bowdoin has risen (to the point of being one of the most desirable LACs in the country). Both have in my opinion two of the better locations. Both have become almost impossible to get in like the two above. Many also would not blink about choosing either one over Dartmouth. Not sure about this, but don't either is quite as staid as the two above, and I like that. I'd rather my kid go to one of these than Williams or Amherst. Non-NESCAC alternatives nationally: Carleton, Haverford, Kenyon, Pomona, Davidson.

    Wesleyan -- My personal favorite and I think in a category by itself (locally). For my money, what college is all about. Diversity, a bit of an edge intellectually and socially.
    I just think this is an incredible school. Perfect size, a little bigger than most of the others. Alas, also almost impossible to get in and has tremendous national reach and appeal. Median SATs for class of 2014....straight 730s. 75th percentile....straight 770s. Get yourself a copy of The Gatekeepers and enjoy (and get depressed). I think those that think of Wesleyan as #3 in the trio of the "Little 3" are making a big mistake. Also suffers just a bit by proximity to Yale. Non-NESCAC alternatives: Chicago, Swarthmore, Vassar, Grinnell, Oberlin, Macalester, Reed.

    Tufts -- Personally I would put Colby next, but I know Tufts is a great school, and also bordering on impossible to get in going by SAT scores. I'll be honest, I don't really get Tufts. Maybe because a "mutt" of a school as some guides say. Much bigger than the others and also seems in its own category. Maybe suffers from proximity to so much Boston competition with Harvard, MIT, BC, Wellesley, etc. I'm sure someone else can give a more favorable review. I can't think of many good non-NESCAC comparisons. Maybe Washington U, Emory, Brandeis, Wake Forest?

    Colby -- Another personal favorite and a NESCAC on the rise. Comfortably settling into the spot Bowdoin was 5-10 years ago, and in terms of the Maine group I think 20 years ago people would think "Bowdoin and Bates" and now they think "Bowdoin and Colby." Only negatives for me are way too white and too high a percentage of prep school kids. Otherwise, a gem. Increased selectivity -- median straight 700s for 2013 and likely rising -- no doubt due to dropping admit numbers at schools above, and so Colby has become one of the few "reach, but maybe still within reach" for many. This dynamic will propel this school into the near impossible group if it hasn't already. Another that is not so easy in terms of non-NESCAC comparisons: Kenyon, Davidson, Whitman, Hamilton...maybe Grinnell and Macalester (though better diversity, edgier, and bit more intellectual at those two).

    Bates, Trinity, Conn College -- All outstanding schools, but someone's got to be at the bottom, right? As suggested above, my sense is that Bates has slipped a little. Maybe not the endowment of the ones above. Hopefully someone will tell me I'm wrong. Trinity is tough to figure. Suffers from proximity to Yale and Wesleyan and reputation of being "the best school I could get in to" (meaning its a popular fallback choice). Hartford doesn't help, but for some this can be viewed as a positive compared to many NESCACs that are remote and suffer from diversity deficiency. Engineering option a big plus. Connecticut College in some ways I think is the best positioned of these 3. Not as saddled with the history of being compared to the others, maybe a little less preppy and elitist. Because of very difficult college admissions landscape, these 3 get a ton of attention as "possibles" for those that can't get in one of the above. And so they are getting tougher and tougher to get in as well. A few years ago, you would think that straight 650s or above would get you in. Now? Not so much. Non-NESCAC comparables: Union, Hamilton, Skidmore, Dickinson, Bucknell, Muhlenberg, Lafayette, Lewis & Clark, Rhodes, Denison, Wooster, and a host of others slightly above or slightly below.

    I'm a bit confused about Hamilton. Wasn't it a NESCAC, but now it's with Vassar, Union, RPI, Skidmore, Clarkson, etc.?

    Comment


      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      You'll have to travel at least 300 mi to find a school that meets that criteria.
      Also -- not really go to any elite school at all. LOL

      Of course, I am kidding. No school "turns" kids into anything. However, a good education tends to inform a broader world-view.
      And... I suspect that you are probably referring to that phenomenon with your question. And so... the answer really probably is:
      "...not really go to any elite school at all."

      Comment


        Lol. All these new threads basically about college academics all of a sudden. Think someone is trying real hard to convince themselves that their kid's D3 landing was as impressive as everyone else's. What makes it all hysterical is based upon the low number of posts and page views even the parents with kids at Ivy and NESCAC schools don't seem to be all that interested in discussion their issues. Maybe it's time that tperson finally wake up and realize that their education first, soccer second pov is nothing but an extremist one that few on a soccer forum actually share.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Lol. All these new threads basically about college academics all of a sudden. Think someone is trying real hard to convince themselves that their kid's D3 landing was as impressive as everyone else's. What makes it all hysterical is based upon the low number of posts and page views even the parents with kids at Ivy and NESCAC schools don't seem to be all that interested in discussion their issues. Maybe it's time that tperson finally wake up and realize that their education first, soccer second pov is nothing but an extremist one that few on a soccer forum actually share.
          There really is only one person on talking soccer who holds this point of view. Just when I thought Paul was becoming more reasonable now that his daughter is in college, with worthwhile contributions to the thread about the value of the various leagues, he comes out with this.

          Not again! (For what, the hundredth time?) Stop already!!! Stop projecting your unhappiness onto other parents. Many many parents are very happy -- and proud-- if their kids are able to play D3 soccer.

          Comment


            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Lol. All these new threads basically about college academics all of a sudden. Think someone is trying real hard to convince themselves that their kid's D3 landing was as impressive as everyone else's. What makes it all hysterical is based upon the low number of posts and page views even the parents with kids at Ivy and NESCAC schools don't seem to be all that interested in discussion their issues. Maybe it's time that tperson finally wake up and realize that their education first, soccer second pov is nothing but an extremist one that few on a soccer forum actually share.
            Of course, if you cared a bit more about education than soccer, your post would not be riddled with obvious spelling, grammar and basic English usage errors.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Lol. All these new threads basically about college academics all of a sudden. Think someone is trying real hard to convince themselves that their kid's D3 landing was as impressive as everyone else's. What makes it all hysterical is based upon the low number of posts and page views even the parents with kids at Ivy and NESCAC schools don't seem to be all that interested in discussion their issues. Maybe it's time that tperson finally wake up and realize that their education first, soccer second pov is nothing but an extremist one that few on a soccer forum actually share.
              True this. "it was always about academics for our family" - especially when the phone didn't ring

              Comment

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