WAGS did not deliver as promised

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[QUOTE=Unregistered;1393435]Assuming all other critical factors such as academics, finances, location etc have already been determined and you now are looking at soccer fit there is a quick test or general rule of thumb.

For top notch soccer programs such as those in the ACC or SEC you basically need to be in the national pool, on one of the highly competitive ECNL teams or a Regional team with a high level of success in the Southern Regionals event and Nationals.

For the next couple of tiers down such as Conference USA, most success will be found if the player is on a very good to average ECNL team and highly competitive regional teams. Some success can be found on state level teams but the money is probably very limited. Your run of the mill ECNL teams and Region 3 teams will have most of their success with lower tier D1 conferences like the Big South and competitive D2 conferences like the Peach Belt.

If your kid is not competing at a high level it will be tough, but not impossible. The above really is just a rule of thumb based on what I have seen over the last few years, and it basically assumes we wre talkinabout starting players. Depending on the strength of reserve players i coud say that those playersarelikely to fall one to several layers down from their starting counterparts. All starters on mydaughtersU18 R3 team are committed but only one reserve is and she committed to a D3 school.[QUOTE]
What is the time frame for the various divisions and conferences?

[Unregistered]

Can anyone shed light on whether any of the D1, top ranked D2 schools allow "walk-ons," i.e., no scholarship money offered, but a place in the program and a chance to play, despite not being recruited and made an athletic scholarship offer?

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W

Most people don't forget you arrogant moron. But this isnt an academic forum is it? I already know where we are with academics but some of us come on here to understand the recruiting aspect and don't need you trying to "set us straight".

While you are not incorrect about your statement about student players transferring, that is not unique to D1 schools.

Never said it was unique to D1 schools...I will refrain from calling you names.

Just saying that if you lose your athletic money for some reason, you are paying to stay or transferring because you cannot afford to stay there. Remember, college coaches look to recruit better players than they recruited the year prior, better players than your son or daughter and there will ALWAYS be someone better.

Here are some "recruiting tips", to help you better understand the recruiting process.


How long the college scholarships will last
Determine whether the offer is renewable annually. Ask about the requirements for renewal and the circumstances in which the scholarship might be reduced or canceled.

The effect of an injury or coaching change on the college scholarship
If you suffer a career-ending injury and can no longer compete, some institutions will not continue to provide you with an athletic student scholarship. A new coach may not be willing to maintain your athletic scholarship. Check with the athletic department at the college to see what its policy is for each of these situations.

The effect of exhausting eligibility before completing your degree
You may use all of your athletic eligibility before finishing your degree program. Ask whether aid will still be available to you as you complete your degree and if it is, ask about how you can qualify for it.

How to maintain undergraduate scholarships
Some university scholarships may have academic requirements attached, such as maintaining a specific grade point average. Some university scholarships may place restrictions on your opportunities for employment. Be sure to understand the actions you need to take in order to keep the scholarship and the actions you must avoid to prevent losing the scholarship.

[Unregistered]

Blah blah blah. Anyone going through the process has googled and already obtained this information. Why don't you post something helpful like personal experiences and observations.

[Unregistered]

Can anyone shed light on whether any of the D1, top ranked D2 schools allow "walk-ons," i.e., no scholarship money offered, but a place in the program and a chance to play, despite not being recruited and made an athletic scholarship offer?

Some do. I think at least one maybe two starting players on the last UNC national championship team were walk-ons. My daughter's coach is actually looking for a few walk ons. However I also know a player who had a scholarship offer at a lower tier D1 school but gave it up to take their chances at an SEC school as a walk-on. She spent a few weeks training, while being a residential student at the school, with the team and was then told no thank you. So there are schools who can be selective even with walk-ons.

The best thing to do is for your player to write emails to these schools and to call them to inquire about it. There is no guarantee it will work out with or without scholarship money. However if your player is set on a school and set on playing and it doesn't work out, there is always the club option at a fair number of big schools. From what I understand these teams are competitive and play other college club teams.

[Unregistered]

W

Most people don't forget you arrogant moron. But this isnt an academic forum is it? I already know where we are with academics but some of us come on here to understand the recruiting aspect and don't need you trying to "set us straight".

While you are not incorrect about your statement about student players transferring, that is not unique to D1 schools.

I know. I have asked a few questions that are specific to soccer recruiting and I get back arrogant responses that me and my daughter need to set our priorities right. Did they ever stop to think that maybe we already have done our research on the academics. The recruiting process is confusing and frustrating and it is helpful to get the perspectives of people who have gone through it.

[Unregistered]

There is no proscribed "time frame" for a division or conference. It comes down to the school and where they stand on their individual recruiting classes. For girls it has gotten younger and younger. I will suggest that is mostly because girls reach their physical maturity sooner so coaches can have some idea where a kid will end up physically at 15 and 16 versus guys where the 15 year old may have not even hit his major growth spurts.

For the "best" players you will see oral commitments at 15 -- that's maybe 50 to 100 players though. For most girls sophomore year of high school is a time to get noticed with the idea being that the summer between sophomore and junior year, and the Fall of junior year will be major recruitment and decision time. Yes, of course, lots of kids don't make a decision until their senior year, and yes kids change their minds all the time. How many high school sophomores really know where they want to go to college? I have never seen any proof, but it is commonly stated that the bulk of the athletic money will be committed by the end of December of the junior year for a given class. That does not mean that a school would not look at another kid from that class. They just may not have any athletic funds to give out until the next year.

Also -- remember the NCAA contact rules are going to apply. The burden of initiating communications is on the player because college coaches cannot start calling until July 1 before a kid's senior year. Think about that for a second -- if pretty much all athletic money is given out by say Christmas of a kid's junior year. Also keep in mind that a kid cannot take an "official" recruiting trip until the start of their senior year. That means all campus visits have to be paid for by the player until the start of their senior year. (The contact rules do not apply to Div III and NAIA coaches.)

[Unregistered]

Some do. I think at least one maybe two starting players on the last UNC national championship team were walk-ons. My daughter's coach is actually looking for a few walk ons. However I also know a player who had a scholarship offer at a lower tier D1 school but gave it up to take their chances at an SEC school as a walk-on. She spent a few weeks training, while being a residential student at the school, with the team and was then told no thank you. So there are schools who can be selective even with walk-ons.

The best thing to do is for your player to write emails to these schools and to call them to inquire about it. There is no guarantee it will work out with or without scholarship money. However if your player is set on a school and set on playing and it doesn't work out, there is always the club option at a fair number of big schools. From what I understand these teams are competitive and play other college club teams.

Thank you so much for this input...this process has been stressful to say the least! This time of the year is tricky too because coaches are concentrating on their own seasons, as opposed to recruiting. It just seems like players are committing so early that most of the money and/or roster spots are gone by the time coaches are really even able to "speak" to players. Please tell me how this is even possible when they are technically not even allowed to speak to you???!!!! Moreover, there are so few scholarships to divide among so many prospective players. I keep telling my daughter, "In your next life, come back as a football player...plenty of scholarships to go around!" At least she has her academics to "fall back" on. LOL. She is in line to be National Merit commended...but she still wants to play D1 or D2 soccer depending upon the school.

Thanks again for the advice! Keep it coming.

I appreciate the input!!!

[Unregistered]

Thank you so much for this input...this process has been stressful to say the least! This time of the year is tricky too because coaches are concentrating on their own seasons, as opposed to recruiting. It just seems like players are committing so early that most of the money and/or roster spots are gone by the time coaches are really even able to "speak" to players. Please tell me how this is even possible when they are technically not even allowed to speak to you???!!!! Moreover, there are so few scholarships to divide among so many prospective players. I keep telling my daughter, "In your next life, come back as a football player...plenty of scholarships to go around!" At least she has her academics to "fall back" on. LOL. She is in line to be National Merit commended...but she still wants to play D1 or D2 soccer depending upon the school.

Thanks again for the advice! Keep it coming.

I appreciate the input!!!

The "soccer thing" is hard to give up. But I have known some players to hang up the cleats on the way to college and they were happy they did. With those who moved on to play in college there has been a mix of feelings and outcomes.

[Observer from West Coast]

Contact College Coaches

I would suggest making direct contact with a few college coaches and ask them directly.

On this site, many posters act like college coaches are villians and dislike soccer players. I found this to be exactly opposite of our experiences.

When my daughter was in middle school, we had questions about the importance of high school soccer in the recruiting process. We sent letters to about 10 soccer coaches and got written replies back from 8 of them (including UNC, UF, Notre Dame). Most were from assistant coaches, some were from the head coach. They gave great feedback.

During the U17 year my daughter wanted to change teams and we weren't sure what college coaches would think about that. Again we sent letters to a group of college coaches (at this age, I assisted in the writing of the letter, but my daughter sent the letters and made follow up calls). We heard back from all of the schools she contacted and she followed up with a phone call to the coaches (recruiting assistants mainly). They were very helpful.

My daughter ended up playing four years at DI school. On a few occasions I attended tournaments (Disney, Orange Classic, HS Final Four) where her coaches were there recruiting and I hung out with them and other college coaches. I was coaching high school at the time, and I asked lots of questions about the process - most were more than happy to share how they recruit,what they look for and how they respond to inquiries.

As you would expect, the very top programs are very selective about where they spend their recruiting efforts. As you move down the competitive levels, there are more programs anxious to find those overlooked players.

Remember, coaches jobs depend on getting good players playing for them. Give them an opportuinty to see an undiscovered jem and most will make an effort. But also be realistic, there are very few "undiscoverd jems" with the talent to play on a top ten team. Those coaches aren't as flexible, because they don't have to be.

Bottom line. If you have recruiting questions, don't be afraid to contact college coaches directly.

[Unregistered]

We find it very rude and inconsiderate when parents talk to college coaches at showcase events when they are there to focus on players. That is not the time for chit chat. I agree that these coaches love to talk about their program but that is not the right time and place.

[Unregistered]

Blah blah blah. Anyone going through the process has googled and already obtained this information. Why don't you post something helpful like personal experiences and observations.

Here is some personal experience:

If your kid is good enough you wouldn't be asking about recruiting tips or timing. Your kid would be approached through your club coach after a college coach watched her play and colleges would be fighting over her. If that isn't the case... In our case we had to stop the college coaches from spreading rumors that she was already committed.

How's that for an observation???????????????????????????????????????

[Unregistered]

Here is some personal experience:

If your kid is good enough you wouldn't be asking about recruiting tips or timing. Your kid would be approached through your club coach after a college coach watched her play and colleges would be fighting over her. If that isn't the case... In our case we had to stop the college coaches from spreading rumors that she was already committed.

How's that for an observation???????????????????????????????????????

The caveat is that we hope people are honest. You clearly don't get that.

[Unregistered]

What is the time frame for the various divisions and conferences?[/QUOTE]

Not answering your question directly but if you look at the list announced commitments at:
https://sites.google.com/site/soccerrecruits/
(found it by googling "google docs: soccer recruiting")
it sure seems like alot of the players with nat'l team experience are committing as 10th graders. Then the next tier commit as juniors with the rest filling in as seniors.

The hierarchy appears to be the same for the colleges: top 25 targets 10th, DI targets 11th, lower D1 and others target late 11th and 12th. There are always exceptions but I've been watching this list for several months and those are my observations. Draw your own conclusions.

I'm sure I will be criticized for mentioning this list as it "does not include everyone", "they are just verbals at this time", "I saw a mistake", etc etc but it seems like the best source out there. If there is a better one, please post.

There is a good discussion board at Big Soccer that seems from the discussion to be alot of college coaches. They use this source also and one poster there uses it to rank recruiting classes.

[Unregistered]

There have been some quality posts on this thread - unusual for TS. I suggest we ignore the trolls and keep sharing.

I found a really good thread a while ago that might be helpful. Some of the same idea as expresed here.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/...or-soccer.html