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    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    "as though it matters" That is exactly the question I have been asking!
    Honestly, all you have done is call me a moron.

    Others have provided either an alternative perspective (nfp = tax avoidance strategy) or data from filings. I shared that I have 2 Daughters. Each started with local clubs at uLittle and then went on to larger clubs including GPS. After 10+ years I have not experienced any difference between for-profit and non-profit. They Coach, She Plays, I Pay

    You seem confident not-for-profit is a superior model. You just haven't communicated why.
    3 Kids, Several clubs - experience with both for profit (GPS) and not for profit clubs (a few different). So my for profit view is simply GPS (and maybe has nothing to do with their tax status). Other clubs had a reasonable roster size, and kept it steady throughout the season (from a financial perspective, the presumption is that the per player tuition covered the costs of the operations + whatever excess they we trying to achieve - presuming their was a $ motivation). For GPS (for profit), they started with a full roster size (at least 18 for 11v 11), but continually added throughout the season, and/or elevated players from a lower team that they felt they were in danger of losing to another club. Often bringing in players from outside GPS with promises of great things, only to see the players pay their fees, and sit on the bench, or be told that they were not going to play that week, and be shipped off to a regional team to get playing time (and oversaturating that team's roster). As others have stated, maybe the individual fees are in line with other clubs, but GPS will stack rosters with additional players to maximize revenue - impacting the playing time of all involved. And selling more and more overpriced kits on behalf of their marketing partners. So to be clear - the cost of the field rental, tournaments and coaches are the same whether their are 16 (as was the case with 2 of our kids clubs) on the roster or 22 (which is where GPS often got), yet GPS' revenue at 22 is 37.5% greater, with very little incremental cost (mostly pure profit for each incremental add to roster above the breakeven amount) - that is the difference between GPS (for profit), and many other clubs that I have seen.

    Comment


      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      3 Kids, Several clubs - experience with both for profit (GPS) and not for profit clubs (a few different). So my for profit view is simply GPS (and maybe has nothing to do with their tax status). Other clubs had a reasonable roster size, and kept it steady throughout the season (from a financial perspective, the presumption is that the per player tuition covered the costs of the operations + whatever excess they we trying to achieve - presuming their was a $ motivation). For GPS (for profit), they started with a full roster size (at least 18 for 11v 11), but continually added throughout the season, and/or elevated players from a lower team that they felt they were in danger of losing to another club. Often bringing in players from outside GPS with promises of great things, only to see the players pay their fees, and sit on the bench, or be told that they were not going to play that week, and be shipped off to a regional team to get playing time (and oversaturating that team's roster). As others have stated, maybe the individual fees are in line with other clubs, but GPS will stack rosters with additional players to maximize revenue - impacting the playing time of all involved. And selling more and more overpriced kits on behalf of their marketing partners. So to be clear - the cost of the field rental, tournaments and coaches are the same whether their are 16 (as was the case with 2 of our kids clubs) on the roster or 22 (which is where GPS often got), yet GPS' revenue at 22 is 37.5% greater, with very little incremental cost (mostly pure profit for each incremental add to roster above the breakeven amount) - that is the difference between GPS (for profit), and many other clubs that I have seen.
      Figured this was BS so just checked the GPS Elite team in my daughter's age group, and they have 21 players on the roster according to gotsoccer. Maybe something here (parent on another club - no direct GPS experience, but my daughter has never been on a roster larger than 18)

      Comment


        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        3 Kids, Several clubs - experience with both for profit (GPS) and not for profit clubs (a few different). So my for profit view is simply GPS (and maybe has nothing to do with their tax status). Other clubs had a reasonable roster size, and kept it steady throughout the season (from a financial perspective, the presumption is that the per player tuition covered the costs of the operations + whatever excess they we trying to achieve - presuming their was a $ motivation). For GPS (for profit), they started with a full roster size (at least 18 for 11v 11), but continually added throughout the season, and/or elevated players from a lower team that they felt they were in danger of losing to another club. Often bringing in players from outside GPS with promises of great things, only to see the players pay their fees, and sit on the bench, or be told that they were not going to play that week, and be shipped off to a regional team to get playing time (and oversaturating that team's roster). As others have stated, maybe the individual fees are in line with other clubs, but GPS will stack rosters with additional players to maximize revenue - impacting the playing time of all involved. And selling more and more overpriced kits on behalf of their marketing partners. So to be clear - the cost of the field rental, tournaments and coaches are the same whether their are 16 (as was the case with 2 of our kids clubs) on the roster or 22 (which is where GPS often got), yet GPS' revenue at 22 is 37.5% greater, with very little incremental cost (mostly pure profit for each incremental add to roster above the breakeven amount) - that is the difference between GPS (for profit), and many other clubs that I have seen.
        Thank You. Now i understand your context. I shared mine, you shared yours.
        I’m not trying to “win” an argument, just wanted to understand your claim - now i do.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Figured this was BS so just checked the GPS Elite team in my daughter's age group, and they have 21 players on the roster according to gotsoccer. Maybe something here (parent on another club - no direct GPS experience, but my daughter has never been on a roster larger than 18)
          I think more research would need to be done in order to make a statement that this is GPS's business model. In our experience it's the opposite, we've never had a large team. Currently we have 15, an in years past we've never had more than 2-3 subs. Conversely we frequently have played teams with double (or close to) the starting lineup. Again that's just our experience. I haven't noticed a trend by club. and gotsoccer isn't a reliable source for roster numbers

          Comment


            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            I think more research would need to be done in order to make a statement that this is GPS's business model. In our experience it's the opposite, we've never had a large team. Currently we have 15, an in years past we've never had more than 2-3 subs. Conversely we frequently have played teams with double (or close to) the starting lineup. Again that's just our experience. I haven't noticed a trend by club. and gotsoccer isn't a reliable source for roster numbers
            GPS also charges significantly more than other clubs.

            Comment


              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              GPS also charges significantly more than other clubs.
              This is absolutely NOT true in my experience. No difference

              Comment


                My friend's daughter moved from NEFC to GPS this year and it was over $500 more

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  This is absolutely NOT true in my experience. No difference
                  Stars, Seacoast, and GPS were all within 5% of each other from our experience. GPS was the highest, but incorporated a camp in there.

                  Comment


                    Club tuition is serious budget item for families, but it is only a a fraction of the overall cost of high-level club soccer. Factor all costs from Tuition, Kits, Tournament Travel, Tourney Fees, included vs additional camps, and everyday costs like commute mileage, lunch on the run, sweatshirts, cleats, under armour (you need that here) -- They are all same: alot.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Club tuition is serious budget item for families, but it is only a a fraction of the overall cost of high-level club soccer. Factor all costs from Tuition, Kits, Tournament Travel, Tourney Fees, included vs additional camps, and everyday costs like commute mileage, lunch on the run, sweatshirts, cleats, under armour (you need that here) -- They are all same: alot.
                      I agree with your post. The cost of tuition is only a portion of the overall cost. I would also add that it depends on the level that you play...the kits and camps are always the same regardless of the level...but, if you do regional NPL then most regional tournaments are relatively inexpensive (Memorial Day or Thanksgiving are usual local)...if you do ECNL (using boys ECNL as an example) the travel and tournament cost goes up dramatically...tournaments require airfare and hotel (San Diego, Orlando, etc) and most games require long drives and hotels. I'm not complaining...just adding a little bit of personal insight.


                      Also...am I the only one that thinks $295 for a pair of soccer cleats that only last 5 months is crazy?

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        I agree with your post. The cost of tuition is only a portion of the overall cost. I would also add that it depends on the level that you play...the kits and camps are always the same regardless of the level...but, if you do regional NPL then most regional tournaments are relatively inexpensive (Memorial Day or Thanksgiving are usual local)...if you do ECNL (using boys ECNL as an example) the travel and tournament cost goes up dramatically...tournaments require airfare and hotel (San Diego, Orlando, etc) and most games require long drives and hotels. I'm not complaining...just adding a little bit of personal insight.


                        Also...am I the only one that thinks $295 for a pair of soccer cleats that only last 5 months is crazy?
                        My experience with girls is that NPL tournaments were greater than ECNL.
                        NPL typically does at least 3 of: Bethesda, Raleigh CASL, Richmond Jeff Cup, NJ PDA and some add Disney or Surf Cup in San Diego. AND you desperately hope to make NPL Finals and/or National Cup to spend a week (maybe 2!) in July in IN or CO

                        ECNL does 2 ECNL Showcase (FL Jan, and PHX Apr) PDA, and ECNL Playoffs in June.

                        in-season NPL travel can mostly be done as day trips, and ECNL demands one weekend a month drive to Long Island, NJ, etc.

                        Yes cleat prices ridiculous however Nike Store downtown will match offers available in Nike App. i saved $150 with this

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          My experience with girls is that NPL tournaments were greater than ECNL.
                          NPL typically does at least 3 of: Bethesda, Raleigh CASL, Richmond Jeff Cup, NJ PDA and some add Disney or Surf Cup in San Diego. AND you desperately hope to make NPL Finals and/or National Cup to spend a week (maybe 2!) in July in IN or CO

                          ECNL does 2 ECNL Showcase (FL Jan, and PHX Apr) PDA, and ECNL Playoffs in June.

                          in-season NPL travel can mostly be done as day trips, and ECNL demands one weekend a month drive to Long Island, NJ, etc.

                          Yes cleat prices ridiculous however Nike Store downtown will match offers available in Nike App. i saved $150 with this
                          Friend manages footwear dept. In local and national sporting goods store (chain). Rhymes with ricks. She says Nike products are crap and very bad for young feet.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Friend manages footwear dept. In local and national sporting goods store (chain). Rhymes with ricks. She says Nike products are crap and very bad for young feet.
                            Not really polling the experts when you refer to that store, are we?

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              Not really polling the experts when you refer to that store, are we?
                              Very little in terms of high-end footwear at Dicks stores. Online they offer more, but their in-store selection is very weak. Nike and Adidas dominate in terms of high-end cleats. It is the one area I won't skimp as soccer is all about the foot.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                U19s would be HS Seniors (some committed, some not), but there may also be some 2001's playing on those teams (either as HS seniors or Juniors).

                                From the coaching perspective, most D1 recruiting is already done by this point for the 2019 class. From a D2 or D3 perspective, it will vary by school. Many schools like to have the core of their recruiting class 'committed' and to have already applied early decision at this point (i.e. their top 6). However, many of these schools will be looking to fill gaps in their lineup almost all the way through April, and not everyone who they try to get early decision pans out.
                                Back to one of the main discussions in this thread, on the boys side, it seems that showcases like Thanksgiving and the IMG/Disney ones in December are important for uncommitted seniors (U18/19). Coaches are looking to fill final roster spots, call it their "B" list of recruits, and are active at these showcases. This is especially true for D3 schools.

                                A lot of coaches are also starting to look at younger players, especially U16-17.

                                Comment

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