when does college recruiting start

[Unregistered]

There is no question that at some D3 schools, soccer helps. I have seen kids with Cs get into NESCACS that they would otherwise have no opportunity to attend. There are exceptions like MIT, Amherst, and Williams, which wouldn’t take kids with those grades, but mediocrity should not despair.

Please don’t give false hope. How many kids from public schools with C’s? You are talking almost exclusively about prep school kids whose grades get scaled differently because of the quality of their education. The SAT’s are also typically right where they need to be. Definitely not talking about your random C student.

[Unregistered]

Please don’t give false hope. How many kids from public schools with C’s? You are talking almost exclusively about prep school kids whose grades get scaled differently because of the quality of their education. The SAT’s are also typically right where they need to be. Definitely not talking about your random C student.

That help will likely only come at lower ranked, smaller D3s 9face it, not EVERY D3 is U Chicago). In demand top D3s soccer doesn't really help. Literally been there, done that. Mine applied/was "recruited" by a few highly ranked soccer programs at great schools where he really didn't fit the applicant profile - he had very good grades and scores but was still just below what they want. Coaches were pretty confident it wouldn't be an issue. Two he was rejected out right, another was on the wait list but of course the coach gave the spot to a player who got admitted before he did. He had plenty of D1 interest but didn't want a D1 commitment. Ended up at a D3 that still has good soccer but was one step down from the 3 higher quality schools. He had a good deal of D1 interest but decided pretty early in the process he didn't want a D1 commitment. He was contacted by two D1 programs while in college to transfer but he was playing a ton, loved the school and, again, didn't want a soccer "job" No reason to leave.

[Unregistered]

FWIIW, this is still one of the best posts I’ve read on TS. Speaks to the impact academic concessions can have.

http://www.talking-soccer.com/TS4/sh...8&postcount=60

It's true that Amherst and Williams have more qualified applicants than seats, and they can be pretty choosy about student they admit. But even at these schools, it is not the case that all of the students are equally academically gifted. There are some kids who get in because they're academically superb - 4.0, honors, and 750+ on their SATs. There are other kids who get in because they bring other talent that compensates for academic records that aren't quite as good as the superstars. They will enrich the school in student government, public service, the band, drama, etc. Extracurricular excellence compensates for some shortcomings in academic excellence.

In my experience, nothing consistently makes up for weakness in an academic record more than being a top recruit at any college - including Ivy and NESCAC. We all knew people in high school who got recruited, and if you've got high schoolers, your kids know people who never would get in without being recruited.

It's a myth that these schools are recruiting athletes whose academic credentials are "just as good" as the rest of the student body's. They're admitting kids who can do the work, maybe fairly well, and will enrich the school's sports teams. But let's not fool ourselves. Recruited athletes are not, as a whole, admitted because the admissions committee believes that those kids are the future phi beta kappa grads of the school.

So how big is the academic concession for a recruited athlete? It depends on how good the athlete is and how important the sport is to the college. Football and basketball probably get deeper concessions than sailing.

A couple of years ago, the San Jose Mercury News reporter did a blog post that published the average GPAs and SATs of the Stanford, UNC, and Duke men's basketball teams (http://blogs.mercurynews.com/college...s-standards/):

Duke average GPA: 3.13
Duke average SAT: 968

Stanford average GPA: 3.46
Stanford average SAT: 1123

North Carolina average GPA: 2.84
North Carolina average SAT: 915

These are 3 of the country's top universities, and very selective. Kids with grades and SATs at this level would rarely get into these schools. At Stanford or Duke, accepted students would probably have something like 3.8-3.9 and 1480. But these lower grades and scores are the AVERAGE for the basketball teams. Apparently some of the players had even lower.

I don't personally think that soccer gets concessions this big because there's less money involved for the school, and I also think that the Ivies and NESCAC schools make smaller concessions on the whole. I believe that the Ivies also have fairly complex rules to limit the size and number of concessions to athlete admits, so Ivy coaches have to recruit some "strong student" athletes to balance out their "stud jock but weaker student" athletes. But even if the concessions are half as great, that is considerable.

Now don't get me wrong. I'm not saying these athletes don't deserve to get in. They have special talent that the school values, and they work hard to excel at sport. And of course, these schools also attract the rare kid who is a top student and top athlete. But at the same time, let's not kid ourselves. Colleges, including Ivies and NESCAC, will admit athletes with grades and SATs substantially lower than the general student body's. If your kid is a good enough player, it is a very significant admissions advantage. The problem, of course, is that very few kids are good enough players. If your kid is "only" an almost good enough player, then grades begin to matter a lot more.

[Unregistered]

^^^^ basketball and football, not so much with soccer or other non revenue sports. A coach might get a few unqualified students through but not many. He won't use his chips up with admissions except for exceptional players.

Another interesting tidbit I learned a few years ago that I don't think has changed - teams have to keep a minimum GPA average as set by the NCAA. But it's a TEAM average, not each athlete has to have it. So a coach will seek out some really smart kids (again, easy for them to get in) that will help the team average. It's why you see tall white kids at Duke and other schools that rarely play.

[Unregistered]

dd2 was one of the best posters in the history of TS. No axe to grind like the infamous one.

[Unregistered]

Keep throwing out hypotheticals to suit your argument. I'm not sure how many kids play soccer at a D1 school, while admitted to an honors program. The time requirements involved in an honors program make that combination unlikely. How do I know? My kid was accepted into one. We're considering a large public school along with some smaller LACs.

1. Fact of the matter is that soccer in D1 is a job and kids playing in a power 5 conference will not have the same experiences as those who play at a lower level D1 or D3 (I'm not equating the two). It's soccer first, classes second. That's been beaten to death on this site.
2. The education programs you mention are typically graduate programs not undergraduate, so you'll not be getting anything special as an undergrad. (Say nothing about education as a major).
3. You don't need to attend a college with hundreds of majors, just the the ones you are interested in. As for the costs to attend D3, feel free to make all the sweeping generalizations you want. Our kid got a great merit package and if she decides to attend that school it'll be very affordable.

My kid isn't perfect, but you know nothing about her. I'll tell you this, she was being looked at by EM at UMASS as a freshman. When she learned what the D1 expectations were, she tapped out. She's prioritized school program/fit first. If you want to denigrate that, fine. I hope you sleep well.

EM and mass as a freshman is all I need to know. Thanks for the clarification. One of my kids is in an honors program with an unusual major at a power five. I school I am sure you would similarly turn your nose up at. Nice that you just disparaged all of the teachers in the US. So back at you dude.

[Unregistered]

Bahha! The fact that you are comparing GW and Fordham with these schools exposes younasna fraud. Chicago and Emory are among the top 20 schools in the country.

What top 20 are you looking at?

[Unregistered]

D3 have very narrow scope of majors offered. What if you kid is interested in something outside of liberal arts?

Hmmm - how about if they want to go into engineering? MIT and cal tech - heard of those? how about RPI, WPI, Carnegie, Stevens, Tufts, etc.

what about bio medical/premed - John's Hopkins, Cal Tech, Tufts, Emory, Rochester, swathmore

What about finance? NYU, UChicago, Rochester, MIT, Carnegie

Business? Bentley, WashU, Washington & Lee, Babson

Computer Science - Carnegie, RPI, WPI, Cal Tech, RIT, MIT

Design/architecture - Wash U, Carnegie, RIT

Physical therapy - Wash U, Emory, arcadia

How about music, performing arts - D3's in the top...but that is too liberal artsy huh? So you want your kid to succeed on Wall Street or in business? A well-rounded athlete from a good engineering programs are the cream of the crop now for Wall Street and consulting firms - preferred over Ivy leaguers. But see what percent of D1 kids make it through an engineering program for 4 years. And how many get a chance to do research, internships, etc.

I am sure the liberal arts schools are likely represented in some of the above - NESCACS have 5 year engineering programs with the Ivys for example. The problem is your kid has to be pretty smart to get into most these schools/programs which may be what drives the negatively towards D3 kids. Have to tear down their soccer skills to justify why they would want to attend some of the best schools in the country for a range of degrees.

And yes, there is recruiting. The top players are also looking at other top D1 schools (schools, not soccer schools) and D3 coaches cannot sit on their thumbs until Junior year. Now PLEASE STOP the jealous nonsense.

[Unregistered]

Hmmm - how about if they want to go into engineering? MIT and cal tech - heard of those? how about RPI, WPI, Carnegie, Stevens, Tufts, etc.

what about bio medical/premed - John's Hopkins, Cal Tech, Tufts, Emory, Rochester, swathmore

What about finance? NYU, UChicago, Rochester, MIT, Carnegie

Business? Bentley, WashU, Washington & Lee, Babson

Computer Science - Carnegie, RPI, WPI, Cal Tech, RIT, MIT

Design/architecture - Wash U, Carnegie, RIT

Physical therapy - Wash U, Emory, arcadia

How about music, performing arts - D3's in the top...but that is too liberal artsy huh? So you want your kid to succeed on Wall Street or in business? A well-rounded athlete from a good engineering programs are the cream of the crop now for Wall Street and consulting firms - preferred over Ivy leaguers. But see what percent of D1 kids make it through an engineering program for 4 years. And how many get a chance to do research, internships, etc.

I am sure the liberal arts schools are likely represented in some of the above - NESCACS have 5 year engineering programs with the Ivys for example. The problem is your kid has to be pretty smart to get into most these schools/programs which may be what drives the negatively towards D3 kids. Have to tear down their soccer skills to justify why they would want to attend some of the best schools in the country for a range of degrees.

And yes, there is recruiting. The top players are also looking at other top D1 schools (schools, not soccer schools) and D3 coaches cannot sit on their thumbs until Junior year. Now PLEASE STOP the jealous nonsense.

Not the other poster and I do agree that the bigger LA's have just about everything. I attended one you listed and changed majors while there, got a fantastic education that helped me get into an even better grad school. It currently has an excellent soccer program (didn't when I was there). There are some small LA's that don't have a laundry list of degrees but generally cover all the basics. Some are too small for some kids - my kids' rule is the college has to be at least twice the size or our high school to even be considered.

[Unregistered]

Hmmm - how about if they want to go into engineering? MIT and cal tech - heard of those? how about RPI, WPI, Carnegie, Stevens, Tufts, etc.

what about bio medical/premed - John's Hopkins, Cal Tech, Tufts, Emory, Rochester, swathmore

What about finance? NYU, UChicago, Rochester, MIT, Carnegie

Business? Bentley, WashU, Washington & Lee, Babson

Computer Science - Carnegie, RPI, WPI, Cal Tech, RIT, MIT

Design/architecture - Wash U, Carnegie, RIT

Physical therapy - Wash U, Emory, arcadia

How about music, performing arts - D3's in the top...but that is too liberal artsy huh? So you want your kid to succeed on Wall Street or in business? A well-rounded athlete from a good engineering programs are the cream of the crop now for Wall Street and consulting firms - preferred over Ivy leaguers. But see what percent of D1 kids make it through an engineering program for 4 years. And how many get a chance to do research, internships, etc.

I am sure the liberal arts schools are likely represented in some of the above - NESCACS have 5 year engineering programs with the Ivys for example. The problem is your kid has to be pretty smart to get into most these schools/programs which may be what drives the negatively towards D3 kids. Have to tear down their soccer skills to justify why they would want to attend some of the best schools in the country for a range of degrees.

And yes, there is recruiting. The top players are also looking at other top D1 schools (schools, not soccer schools) and D3 coaches cannot sit on their thumbs until Junior year. Now PLEASE STOP the jealous nonsense.

D3 coaches don’t sit on their thumbs, but the best ones have to wait to see if the recruits they want are going D1. Fact.

[Unregistered]

D3 coaches don’t sit on their thumbs, but the best ones have to wait to see if the recruits they want are going D1. Fact.

Nothing stopping them from recruiting kids who do only want D3, or are considering both.

[Unregistered]

Nothing stopping them from recruiting kids who do only want D3, or are considering both.

No but they are the bottom of barrel and most college coaches want the best talent they can get

[Unregistered]

Hmmm - how about if they want to go into engineering? MIT and cal tech - heard of those? how about RPI, WPI, Carnegie, Stevens, Tufts, etc.

what about bio medical/premed - John's Hopkins, Cal Tech, Tufts, Emory, Rochester, swathmore

What about finance? NYU, UChicago, Rochester, MIT, Carnegie

Business? Bentley, WashU, Washington & Lee, Babson

Computer Science - Carnegie, RPI, WPI, Cal Tech, RIT, MIT

Design/architecture - Wash U, Carnegie, RIT

Physical therapy - Wash U, Emory, arcadia

How about music, performing arts - D3's in the top...but that is too liberal artsy huh? So you want your kid to succeed on Wall Street or in business? A well-rounded athlete from a good engineering programs are the cream of the crop now for Wall Street and consulting firms - preferred over Ivy leaguers. But see what percent of D1 kids make it through an engineering program for 4 years. And how many get a chance to do research, internships, etc.

I am sure the liberal arts schools are likely represented in some of the above - NESCACS have 5 year engineering programs with the Ivys for example. The problem is your kid has to be pretty smart to get into most these schools/programs which may be what drives the negatively towards D3 kids. Have to tear down their soccer skills to justify why they would want to attend some of the best schools in the country for a range of degrees.

And yes, there is recruiting. The top players are also looking at other top D1 schools (schools, not soccer schools) and D3 coaches cannot sit on their thumbs until Junior year. Now PLEASE STOP the jealous nonsense.

Jealous of what? Being on some tiny campus out in the butt end of nowhere? Not most people.

[Unregistered]

Jealous of what? Being on some tiny campus out in the butt end of nowhere? Not most people.

The all-knowing idiot speaks again. Must have a reading comprehension problem.

NYU -New York City
U Chicago--Chicago
Emory--Atlanta
MIT--Boston

Not all d3s are small liberal arts colleges.

[Unregistered]

EM and mass as a freshman is all I need to know. Thanks for the clarification. One of my kids is in an honors program with an unusual major at a power five. I school I am sure you would similarly turn your nose up at. Nice that you just disparaged all of the teachers in the US. So back at you dude.

Cry me a river. The sh!t D3 kids take for their decisions is over the top. Frankly I don't care what decision any kid makes. It's their life. But when I hear tool bags talking about how a kid who chooses to play isn't good enough to play D1 or should't even play club, while going on to brag about their kid's D1 opportunity I think context is needed.

I was not disparaging teachers. Just the major. I have 6 family members who spent their lives teaching and majored in sciences and english. They obtained a masters in ed and felt degree was of limited value.