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    #76
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Schools recruit players. Being on the YNT, ODP, GDA, ECNL, etc might help widen recruiting possibilities but once a player makes a college roster they compete for a spot and playing time like every other player. Plenty of girls come off the bench regardless of what league they played in. And plenty of players start regardless of the league they played in. College teams want to win and coaches are going to put their best players out there.
    Ideally, this is how it works. And how it should work.

    What happens in practice is that certain leagues attempt to position themselves at the "top of the pyramid" by making two claims:

    1) Join our league and you will have more "recruiting opportunities". In other words, a) we will participate in more elite tournaments and showcase events than an OYSA team, including some exclusive showcases (in which non-ECNL teams are barred); and b) a substantial number of coaches and recruiters won't bother attending local events (including local tournaments and State Cup) unless to scout specific players.

    2) Coaches recommend Joining Our League because of a higher "speed of play".

    I've no problem with 1a. I have a lot more issues with 1b--especially if it is true; no league should be permitted to corner the college recruiting market (and that includes GDA). 2 has always struck me as a dubious claim; if what is meant is "you'll have more opportunities to travel and get your ass whipped by elite clubs that have no local equivalent", then that's true. However the suggestion that ECNL means better quality training from the local club (i.e. that you'll be challenged more in practice) is less obvious--perhaps if the club succeeds in recruiting all the top talent in one spot, maybe; but it's by and large the same coaches leading ECNL teams as before.

    The danger with GDA is that it simply replaces ECNL by playing the "if you want to play for the USWNT, you need to play GDA" trump card, and IT becomes the 800 pound gorilla. If US Soccer puts money where mouth is, and provides a professional-level subsidized training environment rather than basically offering the same thing that can be gotten at any local club, then I don't mind so much. But if the GDA experience is not any better than the ECNL or OYSA or whatever experience, then having GDA sitting on top of the pyramid isn't really any better then having ECNL there. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss.

    The problem that GDA faces, again, is that unlike on the men's/boys' side, there's no international transfer market for women players; no substantial savings to teams who develop homegrowns rather than drafting or buying players, etc. And NCAA women's soccer, which is not a revenue sport at most schools, likewise doesn't have the business model (and is disallowed from operating youth academies anyway).

    Of course, the Timbers now have produced a grand total of two first-team players from their academy; one who hasn't yet seen any first-team action (though he's only been around for one game), the other who was getting embarrassed by the Galaxy last Sunday. (He had a great seat to watch the game). And the Timbers haven't managed to sell anyone--the one local player in the past five years to make any sort of splash overseas (Rubin) went through IMG, not through the TA, and neither the Timbers nor Westside has gotten a dime for him.

    Comment


      #77
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      What's so funny is you post nonsensical fiction that the US Soccer DA has 'rival leagues'.
      There is only one US Soccer DA program, no other competitor in that space.

      It's like saying the MLS is competing with the USL.

      Seriously you can't be that dense or ignorant, if this is the case,then you're beyond help.

      Do so research and understand that the parent youth recreational/classic groups USYS & US Club make kiddo leagues for all the kids below the DA level.

      US Soccer has a separate platform that is not under the USYS or US Club jurisdiction.

      Instead the DA is connected to MLS clubs, NWSL Clubs and the US National team program.
      Hey, I was responding to a stupid comment from an dumbass ECNL honk. Try to elevate the conversation. Please.

      When the MLS DA programs (and GDA) look and act like professional academies abroad, such chest-puffing might be more warranted.

      That said--US academic and sporting culture, which holds fast to the belief that kids should never prioritize athletics above studying (even as it flouts this principle on a regular basis) probably wouldn't tolerate things like residential academies, in which the snowflakes primary duty is soccer training, and tutoring/homework is provided in the evening when they're good and tired.

      Of course, this is how junior hockey clubs--such as our Winterhawks--operate, and nobody seems to mind; but were kids to start dropping out of school in order to do soccer for eight hours a day--let alone were the Timbers to operate a residential academy--the whining from the usual suspects would be intense. But at a certain point in global soccer, that's how you get to the top. You eat, live, sleep, breathe, and sh!t soccer. It isn't something you do for six hours during the week and a few more on Saturday. It's a full-time job, and it starts long before you're old enough to vote.

      As the man sang before choking on his puke, it's a long way to the top if you wanna rock and roll.

      Comment


        #78
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        Hey, I was responding to a stupid comment from an dumbass ECNL honk. Try to elevate the conversation. Please.When the MLS DA programs (and GDA) look and act like professional academies abroad, such chest-puffing might be more warranted. That said--US academic and sporting culture, which holds fast to the belief that kids should never prioritize athletics above studying (even as it flouts this principle on a regular basis) probably wouldn't tolerate things like residential academies, in which the snowflakes primary duty is soccer training, and tutoring/homework is provided in the evening when they're good and tired. Of course, this is how junior hockey clubs--such as our Winterhawks--operate, and nobody seems to mind; but were kids to start dropping out of school in order to do soccer for eight hours a day--let alone were the Timbers to operate a residential academy--the whining from the usual suspects would be intense. But at a certain point in global soccer, that's how you get to the top. You eat, live, sleep, breathe, and sh!t soccer. It isn't something you do for six hours during the week and a few more on Saturday. It's a full-time job, and it starts long before you're old enough to vote.As the man sang before choking on his puke, it's a long way to the top if you wanna rock and roll.
        US Soccer DA is the top tier regardless if you have a personal or subjective issue with a club in that program. Everyone can improve, absolutely. But having to read ding-dong postings about mythical 'rival leagues' really shines the light on the amount of glue sniffing and complete ignorance that has been inhaled.

        Baseball & Basketball two of the 3 pillars in american sports culture want the kids as early aa possible, with no roadblock of a commitment to a 4 year post secondary education. '1 and done' in Basketball & Baseball drafts the top kids straight out of HS. College football can't afford to let the kids go too much money the school would lose, pimping these future pros.

        I hear ya.

        Comment


          #79
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post

          Baseball & Basketball two of the 3 pillars in american sports culture want the kids as early aa possible, with no roadblock of a commitment to a 4 year post secondary education. '1 and done' in Basketball & Baseball drafts the top kids straight out of HS. College football can't afford to let the kids go too much money the school would lose, pimping these future pros.

          I hear ya.
          Even in the Kevin Garnett era, in which drafting of high-schoolers was commonplace; no NBA player would ever get drafted who wasn't either a)18 or b) his HS class had graduated. (Kobe Bryant was 17 when drafted, IIRC, though turned 18 before playing).

          Baseball won't touch or draft anyone who isn't 18 or a HS graduate.

          Foreign soccer academies routinely sign (and since this is compensated training, "signing" is involved) kids as young as 11. Farfan played for the Timbers last year while still in high school. Freddy Adu was 14 (ignoring those who say his age was falsified) when signed by MLS.

          Soccer takes 'em young.

          Comment


            #80
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Even in the Kevin Garnett era, in which drafting of high-schoolers was commonplace; no NBA player would ever get drafted who wasn't either a)18 or b) his HS class had graduated. (Kobe Bryant was 17 when drafted, IIRC, though turned 18 before playing).

            Baseball won't touch or draft anyone who isn't 18 or a HS graduate.

            Foreign soccer academies routinely sign (and since this is compensated training, "signing" is involved) kids as young as 11. Farfan played for the Timbers last year while still in high school. Freddy Adu was 14 (ignoring those who say his age was falsified) when signed by MLS.

            Soccer takes 'em young.
            To that end high school sports are no longer the platform or proving grounds, the only sport that is a little bit untouched and now has club sports creeping into it is American football, times change.

            America will still send kids to high schools and many kids will play the big sports like basketball, baseball and American football but soon a paradigm shift, over the next 10 to 20 years will have us resemble the rest of the world's approach to sports.

            World is catching up to us in basketball and Soccer we're light years behind in development.

            The seeds are being planted now with a youth platform available for the very elite soccer player.

            Comment


              #81
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              US Soccer DA is the top tier regardless if you have a personal or subjective issue with a club in that program. Everyone can improve, absolutely. But having to read ding-dong postings about mythical 'rival leagues' really shines the light on the amount of glue sniffing and complete ignorance that has been inhaled.
              The key words implied in your statement are "according to US Soccer".

              The problem is, US soccer is, as national federations go, fairly weak; so lots of people routinely thumb their noses as it's proclamations.

              Let's compare it to the top governing body of soccer in the UK, the Football Association.

              The FA is **the** undisputed governing body of soccer across the pond. Virtually ALL competitive soccer matches are played under its auspicies. Even when beset by scandal (and it has been in recent years, over topics such as sexual abuse and fair play for women), the response of the public is to call for its reform. It answers to the many county-level football associations in the UK, so in many ways it is a democratic institution--and on a few occasions, Parliament has threatened it with withdrawal of funding and/or legislative oversight when necessary. But outside this, its authority over the English game--from the smallest youth club in a northern coal town, up to the Preier League, is unquestioned. And this authority takes the form of both hard power--it can ban individuals or clubs that do not comply with its rules--as well as soft power; there is a general presumption that the FA knows what it is doing and is acting in the best interest of the sport, even if one may disagree with it on some given matter.

              US Soccer, on the other hand:
              * isn't terribly democratic. Rather than having a flat subsidiary structure, we have a rat's nest of a corporate structure, including several rival (and overlapping) youth sanctioning organizations. It's governance is heavily tilted to the pro game.
              * has very little hard power: it has few carrots and sticks with which to enforce it's decisions. Many youth clubs ignore US Soccer (playing outside the system); organizations like USYSA and US Club act as checks on its power (protecting their member clubs, and routinely telling US Soccer to take a flying leap). It has some money in the bank, but not nearly enough to spread around a country of this size.
              * has very little soft power. Many soccer fans routinely accuse US Soccer of not knowing what it is doing--if there is one thing that American fans of the game agree on, it's that US soccer is incompetent. (They may not agree on what ought to be done instead, but US Soccer has become a bogeyman). The failure of the US to qualify for Russia 18 did severe damage to what little credibility it had, fair or not. And the knives are out.
              * Is too far tilted to the pro game, particularly MLS. I mentioned this above, but it merits its own bullet point--the federation and the pro league are joined at the hip; a good case can be made that the needs of youth players and the NT are being sacrificed for the pro game. Now, a good professional league benefits US soccer immensely, and the same is true for a good national side; but there are many areas in which the two come into conflict.

              In this environment, US Soccer's declaration that GDA is the top girls' league, is worth a bucket of warm spit. It may end up that way, or not--they have little power to force ECNL clubs to accept second place, and many of these ECNL clubs--thinking (rightly or wrongly) that US Soccer doesn't know what it is doing, see no reason to not continue on their current path.

              This is not a defense of ECNL, or a declaration that GDA sucks. This is, however, a recognition of the fact on the ground that US Soccer's pronouncements, to many people, are as relevant as a fart in a hurricane. Simply reciting US soccer dicta as though it settles the matter doesn't work here.

              Comment


                #82
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                To that end high school sports are no longer the platform or proving grounds, the only sport that is a little bit untouched and now has club sports creeping into it is American football, times change.

                America will still send kids to high schools and many kids will play the big sports like basketball, baseball and American football but soon a paradigm shift, over the next 10 to 20 years will have us resemble the rest of the world's approach to sports.

                World is catching up to us in basketball and Soccer we're light years behind in development.

                The seeds are being planted now with a youth platform available for the very elite soccer player.
                Basketball is an interesting case.

                The "world has been catching up to us" has been uttered for the past 30 years, ever since Arvydas Sabonis and the Soviet Union took the gold medal in the 1988 games, with the US team (an amateur team led by likely future HOFer David Robinson, who had finished his college career with the Naval Academy and was serving a two-year tour of duty with the US Navy) taking the bronze. This alarm would repeat four Olympiads later, when an NBA-laden US team failed to take gold in Athens '04. Interestingly enough--after the failure in 2004, and as a reaction to the ugly "thugball" style of play commonplace in the early oughts (as roughhouse defensive tactics designed to slow down Michael Jordan proved even more effective against mere mortals after His Airness retired)--a lot of the blame was directed against AAU. The AAU, many tongues clucked, was focusing on isolation play and "streetball" rather than teaching proper team tactics, and it was this that led to Team USA's downfall. Some of this criticism had merit--a lot of it was blatantly racist crap--but the amateur basketball establishment reacted poorly to coaches from outside the system honing in on their turf.

                (Today, American basketball is doing fine--the US are the favorites for the 2000 Games. International competition is less of a big deal in basketball than it is in soccer, however; especially in the professional ranks.)

                The difference between basketball and soccer is in one sport, we're ahead of the curve--in the other, we're behind. Many American basketball fans can quickly figure out of a given coach is full of beans; whereas lots of snake oil and archaic thinking is found in American soccer.

                FWIW, I generally think a separation of sport and academics is a good thing. You shouldn't need a college degree (or a college education) to dribble or throw or kick or hit a ball; and if someone wants to pursue a career in sports (or music), go for it.

                Comment


                  #83
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  The key words implied in your statement are "according to US Soccer".

                  The problem is, US soccer is, as national federations go, fairly weak; so lots of people routinely thumb their noses as it's proclamations.

                  Let's compare it to the top governing body of soccer in the UK, the Football Association.

                  The FA is **the** undisputed governing body of soccer across the pond. Virtually ALL competitive soccer matches are played under its auspicies. Even when beset by scandal (and it has been in recent years, over topics such as sexual abuse and fair play for women), the response of the public is to call for its reform. It answers to the many county-level football associations in the UK, so in many ways it is a democratic institution--and on a few occasions, Parliament has threatened it with withdrawal of funding and/or legislative oversight when necessary. But outside this, its authority over the English game--from the smallest youth club in a northern coal town, up to the Preier League, is unquestioned. And this authority takes the form of both hard power--it can ban individuals or clubs that do not comply with its rules--as well as soft power; there is a general presumption that the FA knows what it is doing and is acting in the best interest of the sport, even if one may disagree with it on some given matter.

                  US Soccer, on the other hand:
                  * isn't terribly democratic. Rather than having a flat subsidiary structure, we have a rat's nest of a corporate structure, including several rival (and overlapping) youth sanctioning organizations. It's governance is heavily tilted to the pro game.
                  * has very little hard power: it has few carrots and sticks with which to enforce it's decisions. Many youth clubs ignore US Soccer (playing outside the system); organizations like USYSA and US Club act as checks on its power (protecting their member clubs, and routinely telling US Soccer to take a flying leap). It has some money in the bank, but not nearly enough to spread around a country of this size.
                  * has very little soft power. Many soccer fans routinely accuse US Soccer of not knowing what it is doing--if there is one thing that American fans of the game agree on, it's that US soccer is incompetent. (They may not agree on what ought to be done instead, but US Soccer has become a bogeyman). The failure of the US to qualify for Russia 18 did severe damage to what little credibility it had, fair or not. And the knives are out.
                  * Is too far tilted to the pro game, particularly MLS. I mentioned this above, but it merits its own bullet point--the federation and the pro league are joined at the hip; a good case can be made that the needs of youth players and the NT are being sacrificed for the pro game. Now, a good professional league benefits US soccer immensely, and the same is true for a good national side; but there are many areas in which the two come into conflict.

                  In this environment, US Soccer's declaration that GDA is the top girls' league, is worth a bucket of warm spit. It may end up that way, or not--they have little power to force ECNL clubs to accept second place, and many of these ECNL clubs--thinking (rightly or wrongly) that US Soccer doesn't know what it is doing, see no reason to not continue on their current path.

                  This is not a defense of ECNL, or a declaration that GDA sucks. This is, however, a recognition of the fact on the ground that US Soccer's pronouncements, to many people, are as relevant as a fart in a hurricane. Simply reciting US soccer dicta as though it settles the matter doesn't work here.
                  Some people also believe Trump is not our President.
                  They refuse to accept him as commander in chief.

                  Your pain is noted and very well documented.

                  All the very best.

                  Comment


                    #84
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    Some people also believe Trump is not our President.
                    They refuse to accept him as commander in chief.

                    Your pain is noted and very well documented.

                    All the very best.
                    I think he's President; but a lousy one.

                    At any rate, lots of people complain about GDA not allowing high school soccer.

                    A real elite sports academy barely provides any time for high school--soccer is your life.

                    The gulf between what gets done in the US (in any of our various leagues) and how it's done abroad is wide and vast. Squabbling over which extracurricular league is better is like discussing which is the best-smelling cowpie in the pasture.

                    Comment


                      #85
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      I think he's President; but a lousy one.

                      At any rate, lots of people complain about GDA not allowing high school soccer.

                      A real elite sports academy barely provides any time for high school--soccer is your life.

                      The gulf between what gets done in the US (in any of our various leagues) and how it's done abroad is wide and vast. Squabbling over which extracurricular league is better is like discussing which is the best-smelling cowpie in the pasture.
                      And yet there’s still that question which makes all that writing seem like a waste of energy, “what exactly is the purpose of playing GDA?” Pro? Holding back here. College? Okay. What level? D1 options will be dwindling and the best ticket there for girls the last few years has been ecnl. Ecnl is dead now. GDA’s teams are performing far less than ecnl did against other northwest teams. If you don’t think your kid will play D1, why oh why would you opt for GDA or ecnl? Timbers clubs can get that and it’s far less of a commitment and cheaper.

                      Comment


                        #86
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        And yet there’s still that question which makes all that writing seem like a waste of energy, “what exactly is the purpose of playing GDA?” Pro? Holding back here. College? Okay. What level? D1 options will be dwindling and the best ticket there for girls the last few years has been ecnl. Ecnl is dead now. GDA’s teams are performing far less than ecnl did against other northwest teams. If you don’t think your kid will play D1, why oh why would you opt for GDA or ecnl? Timbers clubs can get that and it’s far less of a commitment and cheaper.
                        Competitive non ecnl club will spend about $5-6k per year. GDA is $ 2k per year.
                        The two older age groups are competing just fine. It’s the 2003 age group that’s pretty bad.

                        Comment


                          #87
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          Competitive non ecnl club will spend about $5-6k per year. GDA is $ 2k per year.
                          The two older age groups are competing just fine. It’s the 2003 age group that’s pretty bad.
                          - You will spend half your life driving to get to wherever thorns can manage to beg a field from to train at. Unless you are from the westside which was hilarious to watch Fcp and cu get their players picked off using the same recruit to win model.

                          - 2k a year will not sustain and I bet it will be much more next year.

                          Comment


                            #88
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            And yet there’s still that question which makes all that writing seem like a waste of energy, “what exactly is the purpose of playing GDA?” Pro? Holding back here. College? Okay. What level? D1 options will be dwindling and the best ticket there for girls the last few years has been ecnl. Ecnl is dead now. GDA’s teams are performing far less than ecnl did against other northwest teams. If you don’t think your kid will play D1, why oh why would you opt for GDA or ecnl? Timbers clubs can get that and it’s far less of a commitment and cheaper.
                            You don't need to do Ecnl or GDA to go d1. I'm pretty sure every instance in the history of this state going back 20 years will prove that. Every year.

                            Comment

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