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    What does "Privately trained" mean?

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      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      What does "Privately trained" mean?
      It means a player (or his parents) hire a coach or trainer for some private (one-on-one) lessons, often focusing on skill or technique. Sometimes outside trainers are hired for this, but many club coaches also offer private training.

      A common complaint about this is that it creates a conflict of interest, and that coaches might prefer players who provide them with extra income over players who do not.

      Comment


        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        It means a player (or his parents) hire a coach or trainer for some private (one-on-one) lessons, often focusing on skill or technique. Sometimes outside trainers are hired for this, but many club coaches also offer private training.

        A common complaint about this is that it creates a conflict of interest, and that coaches might prefer players who provide them with extra income over players who do not.
        This is only done in the United States and is almost always young men trying to make a living at coaching, but can’t get a full time job. The British pioneered the industry.

        Comment


          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          4 more kids quit. 3 more pondering it.

          When will the TA wake up?
          Which age group and which players?

          Comment


            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Which age group and which players?
            Yea what age?

            Comment


              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              4 more kids quit. 3 more pondering it.

              When will the TA wake up?
              Are just going to leave it at that?
              What age are you talking about here?

              Comment


                The truth about DA. There are very good players that play for the DA. I would say a few, maybe 1-4 are the very top level players in the Timbers territory. The others are just very good players. That's not a knock, it's just reality. There are a number of reasons that the DA does not have all the best players. In my experience, the reason for this is as follows (and in order):

                #1 It is too big of a time commitment and grind to drive to Beaverton (or Salem). These are kids. They want to lead normal lives. Even the most driven, soccer loving young men, want and need some normalcy in their lives. Many of those kids that grind it out for awhile, often times, they are burned out from the grind of it all and quit. Or get hurt.
                #2 It is too big of a cost get kids to training. While the DA is close to free ($500), the travel commitment just to get kids to training is very costly, not only in gas/car wear and tear, but in parents time. Time is money. When you are spending hours in a car each day, that is money down the drain.
                #3 Kids generally want the high school soccer experience. Some will disagree with me, but I know a number of top talented kids that simply want to play for their school. There's nothing like playing in front of your schoolmates, and playing for your school. This is real.
                #4 Politics. It has been mentioned over and over. I don't think politics is as bad as people are saying. The DA wants to assemble the best team, it's in their best interest to do that. But there is no doubt that kids that have an inside to the program, they often times will have an advantage. I personally think this point is overblown, but nonetheless, it is part of the problem because it turns people off, and thus miss out on talent.
                #5 The goal for most of the top talented soccer players is to play college soccer. People realize that it is 1 in 10,000 that may go pro so college is the goal. College is not the goal for the DA. Great players can get noticed by colleges by playing top club soccer and doing ID camps, maybe dabble in the DA for part of the time. The DA is not necessary at all to play college soccer. It can help, but not necessary.

                Just my own personal thoughts. I've been through it for years, kids participated on and off, and on again. And now off. Many great memories, but also that grind...

                Comment


                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  The truth about DA. There are very good players that play for the DA. I would say a few, maybe 1-4 are the very top level players in the Timbers territory. The others are just very good players. That's not a knock, it's just reality. There are a number of reasons that the DA does not have all the best players. In my experience, the reason for this is as follows (and in order):

                  #1 It is too big of a time commitment and grind to drive to Beaverton (or Salem). These are kids. They want to lead normal lives. Even the most driven, soccer loving young men, want and need some normalcy in their lives. Many of those kids that grind it out for awhile, often times, they are burned out from the grind of it all and quit. Or get hurt.
                  #2 It is too big of a cost get kids to training. While the DA is close to free ($500), the travel commitment just to get kids to training is very costly, not only in gas/car wear and tear, but in parents time. Time is money. When you are spending hours in a car each day, that is money down the drain.
                  #3 Kids generally want the high school soccer experience. Some will disagree with me, but I know a number of top talented kids that simply want to play for their school. There's nothing like playing in front of your schoolmates, and playing for your school. This is real.
                  #4 Politics. It has been mentioned over and over. I don't think politics is as bad as people are saying. The DA wants to assemble the best team, it's in their best interest to do that. But there is no doubt that kids that have an inside to the program, they often times will have an advantage. I personally think this point is overblown, but nonetheless, it is part of the problem because it turns people off, and thus miss out on talent.
                  #5 The goal for most of the top talented soccer players is to play college soccer. People realize that it is 1 in 10,000 that may go pro so college is the goal. College is not the goal for the DA. Great players can get noticed by colleges by playing top club soccer and doing ID camps, maybe dabble in the DA for part of the time. The DA is not necessary at all to play college soccer. It can help, but not necessary.

                  Just my own personal thoughts. I've been through it for years, kids participated on and off, and on again. And now off. Many great memories, but also that grind...
                  Very well written!

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    The truth about DA. There are very good players that play for the DA. I would say a few, maybe 1-4 are the very top level players in the Timbers territory. The others are just very good players. That's not a knock, it's just reality. There are a number of reasons that the DA does not have all the best players. In my experience, the reason for this is as follows (and in order):

                    #1 It is too big of a time commitment and grind to drive to Beaverton (or Salem). These are kids. They want to lead normal lives. Even the most driven, soccer loving young men, want and need some normalcy in their lives. Many of those kids that grind it out for awhile, often times, they are burned out from the grind of it all and quit. Or get hurt.
                    #2 It is too big of a cost get kids to training. While the DA is close to free ($500), the travel commitment just to get kids to training is very costly, not only in gas/car wear and tear, but in parents time. Time is money. When you are spending hours in a car each day, that is money down the drain.
                    #3 Kids generally want the high school soccer experience. Some will disagree with me, but I know a number of top talented kids that simply want to play for their school. There's nothing like playing in front of your schoolmates, and playing for your school. This is real.
                    #4 Politics. It has been mentioned over and over. I don't think politics is as bad as people are saying. The DA wants to assemble the best team, it's in their best interest to do that. But there is no doubt that kids that have an inside to the program, they often times will have an advantage. I personally think this point is overblown, but nonetheless, it is part of the problem because it turns people off, and thus miss out on talent.
                    #5 The goal for most of the top talented soccer players is to play college soccer. People realize that it is 1 in 10,000 that may go pro so college is the goal. College is not the goal for the DA. Great players can get noticed by colleges by playing top club soccer and doing ID camps, maybe dabble in the DA for part of the time. The DA is not necessary at all to play college soccer. It can help, but not necessary.

                    Just my own personal thoughts. I've been through it for years, kids participated on and off, and on again. And now off. Many great memories, but also that grind...
                    Square peg-Round hole scenario.

                    The Timbers DA goal is to have an Academy full of future Homegrown Pros for eventual placement on their 1st MLS Team or possibly hav them get sold to a foriegn world power club.

                    Oregon youth soccer has NO history of supplying that level of talent in mass quantities each year, especially the numbers needed to fill out an entire youth academy program . No one can deny this reality.

                    In the end what's the point of having an MLS Youth Academy it this town or Region, using our local kids as the primary players?

                    Since 2012 it's been a bust with only 1 local youth now a reserve on the first team Mr. Farfan.

                    Club Soccer in the area from 1990 to 2010 was able to send hundreds of boys to colleges and 10-15 of them to the MLS/Europe. Granted that era was a robust in the type of talent that would make it to the smaller MLS league..

                    The bigger question is why haven't the Timbers moved this DA program to another area of the country? Then they could bring in the type of youth players they need from across the globe with the goal of creating future pros. They would have to hire some bona fide youth development coaches.

                    Raise the bar and end this charade.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Square peg-Round hole scenario.

                      The Timbers DA goal is to have an Academy full of future Homegrown Pros for eventual placement on their 1st MLS Team or possibly hav them get sold to a foriegn world power club.
                      Yes.

                      Oregon youth soccer has NO history of supplying that level of talent in mass quantities each year, especially the numbers needed to fill out an entire youth academy program . No one can deny this reality.
                      True, and that begs the question of why? Inadequate numbers of kids going into youth soccer? Inadequate coaching in the clubs? Inadequate local culture? Failure to identify and train potential prospects?

                      In the end what's the point of having an MLS Youth Academy it this town or Region, using our local kids as the primary players?
                      Are you saying that academy programs should be located only in places like SoCal, and if a kid wants to play for that, they should move there?

                      You're confusing a couple things: The Timbers Academy program, which is designed to identify and groom talent for the first team or the transfer market, and the local DA programs, which are designed to provide a better soccer training experience for local youth, INCLUDING THOSE THAT WON'T EVER PLAY PRO. Most DA kids--indeed most TA kids--won't ever get a pro contract, after all. Are you suggesting we scrap the whole thing and return to the old system where someone (in many cases, the parents) buys a plane ticket and sends the Rubio Rubin's or Marco Farfan's or Theo McMillan's (since this is the 05 thread, and he's easily the best 05 in the area) of the world off to IMG to train, and the local clubs basically become, in the words of someone, "glorified rec"?

                      Since 2012 it's been a bust with only 1 local youth now a reserve on the first team Mr. Farfan.
                      Their goal, last I read, is one first-team prospect per year. Not there yet, obviously. But the soccer pipeline is more like a sluice pit--you gotta grind through a lot of mud and rock to find the gold.

                      Club Soccer in the area from 1990 to 2010 was able to send hundreds of boys to colleges and 10-15 of them to the MLS/Europe. Granted that era was a robust in the type of talent that would make it to the smaller MLS league..
                      And club soccer still sends hundreds of boys to college. Most of them are D1 benchwarmers or D2/D3 players, not D1 starters (let alone elite collegians like Darlington Nagbe or Jordan Morris), but the golden age you dream of isn't as golden as you think. And most of those talented boys came from one particular club--are you suggesting that anything that gives Cony competition for talent should be closed down, so he can work his magic once again without having pissed-off mommies taking their snowflakes elsewhere?

                      I didn't think so.

                      The bigger question is why haven't the Timbers moved this DA program to another area of the country? Then they could bring in the type of youth players they need from across the globe with the goal of creating future pros. They would have to hire some bona fide youth development coaches.
                      They do. Look at the U18 roster--it's posted on the USSDA website--and note how many of them are from Oregon and/or Southwest Washington, and how many are from Florida. The problem with this is--generally the guys they get from outside the Timbers' territory are either a) players from regions without a local academy of their own, or b) players cut from some other academy, looking for a second chance.

                      Raise the bar and end this charade.
                      Or, grow the local soccer market and culture, rather than pronouncing the state of Oregon hopeless and doomed to forever more be a rec-league state. But if the local West Hills pay-to-play clubs had their way, that's how it would remain.

                      Now, there are many issues with how the Timbers are running their academy, and how the local DA clubs are coming on line. At this point, the 05 DA teams are mainly last year's OYSA Premier teams, with a patch on the shoulder. OTOH, the national DA program is starting to turn out some fine players. Too early for 2018, Pulisic excluded; but there are good reasons to be excited for the future of US soccer.

                      But ultimately--it will be the culture that's the deciding factor. If the US becomes a place where many kids choose soccer as their first sport, and dads and moms teach the game to their children at a young age, rather than learning the basics at 8 from a rec coach, the organization will matter far less.

                      But bitching about the golden age gone by is ridiculous. There was no such thing.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        The truth about DA. There are very good players that play for the DA. I would say a few, maybe 1-4 are the very top level players in the Timbers territory. The others are just very good players. That's not a knock, it's just reality. There are a number of reasons that the DA does not have all the best players. In my experience, the reason for this is as follows (and in order):

                        #1 It is too big of a time commitment and grind to drive to Beaverton (or Salem). These are kids. They want to lead normal lives. Even the most driven, soccer loving young men, want and need some normalcy in their lives. Many of those kids that grind it out for awhile, often times, they are burned out from the grind of it all and quit. Or get hurt.
                        #2 It is too big of a cost get kids to training. While the DA is close to free ($500), the travel commitment just to get kids to training is very costly, not only in gas/car wear and tear, but in parents time. Time is money. When you are spending hours in a car each day, that is money down the drain.
                        #3 Kids generally want the high school soccer experience. Some will disagree with me, but I know a number of top talented kids that simply want to play for their school. There's nothing like playing in front of your schoolmates, and playing for your school. This is real.
                        #4 Politics. It has been mentioned over and over. I don't think politics is as bad as people are saying. The DA wants to assemble the best team, it's in their best interest to do that. But there is no doubt that kids that have an inside to the program, they often times will have an advantage. I personally think this point is overblown, but nonetheless, it is part of the problem because it turns people off, and thus miss out on talent.
                        #5 The goal for most of the top talented soccer players is to play college soccer. People realize that it is 1 in 10,000 that may go pro so college is the goal. College is not the goal for the DA. Great players can get noticed by colleges by playing top club soccer and doing ID camps, maybe dabble in the DA for part of the time. The DA is not necessary at all to play college soccer. It can help, but not necessary.

                        Just my own personal thoughts. I've been through it for years, kids participated on and off, and on again. And now off. Many great memories, but also that grind...
                        Good assessment and having been around the program for a few years now I would also add:

                        #6 The coaching staff is not professional and generally don't care about most of the kids in the program. They are focused on those 4-5 players per age group which they've deemed as having the potential to make it. The rest of the players, they treat as merely training dummies and the players know it, feel it, and many end up leaving feeling defeated and angry. Several players I've talked to, some who are still there and a few who've quit, feel like no matter how hard they work or how well they play in training that they don't have a chance to break into that group of the "chosen few". Also, they talk about how negative the coaching is ... always tearing players down with no effort to build them up again.

                        I think it was a big miss hiring Larry to run the DA and they should seriously think about going a different direction before many more of the players walk away from the program.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          Good assessment and having been around the program for a few years now I would also add:

                          #6 The coaching staff is not professional and generally don't care about most of the kids in the program. They are focused on those 4-5 players per age group which they've deemed as having the potential to make it. The rest of the players, they treat as merely training dummies and the players know it, feel it, and many end up leaving feeling defeated and angry. Several players I've talked to, some who are still there and a few who've quit, feel like no matter how hard they work or how well they play in training that they don't have a chance to break into that group of the "chosen few". Also, they talk about how negative the coaching is ... always tearing players down with no effort to build them up again.

                          I think it was a big miss hiring Larry to run the DA and they should seriously think about going a different direction before many more of the players walk away from the program.
                          I've seen this happen at local clubs as well.

                          If you want to develop your elite players to the max--they need to be challenged. If your team has a few elite kids, and a bunch of lesser-skilled kids needed to complete an XI and fill out the bench but who are regarded as hopeless (and who are treated as such), that is a problem. Either: a) find the elite kids a new team--perhaps playing up, perhaps playing elsewhere; or b) make sure they are challenged on the team they are on, which means MAKING SURE THEY KNOW THEIR JOB IS NOT SAFE. Which means holding them to the same standards you hold the benchwarmers; if you give your substitute left back the hook because he misses a tackle and allows a goal, you should do the same thing to your annointed starter. And also which means trying to develop the bench players, rather than treating them like cones.

                          If a kid makes a team, he should be full member of that team. If the coach, in good conscience, cannot commit to doing that, the kid should be cut. If the coach can't cut the chaff without no longer having a full roster, see suggestions a and b above.

                          Comment


                            Club soccer in Oregon is strictly a pay to play animal gone wild and the byproducts the last 5 to 7 years resemble this phenomenon perfectly. Players, DOC and coaches. Sadly even parents.

                            MLS D.Academies should be located in areas that can draw the requisite talent needed to reach their goal of producing top flight players. Nice weather is a help if you're stuck in market that has horrible weather see: Portland and Real Salt Lake AZ. Most MLS Cities have enough local talent to make it work, places like Portland & Salt Lake obviously don't.

                            Don't confuse a local rec Oregonclub fielding a couple of teams in an Oregon 'DA' metro league suddenly giving them linkage and connection or even resemble the MLS Portland Timbers DA.
                            The local clubs joined a DA sponsored league vs an OPL/OYSA/Soccer 5/THPRD league they are still just local clubs, local coaches with local kids. Same ole, Same ole Oregon club soccer experience, nothing has changed.

                            You can dig all you want, the digging isn't helping find gems. All you get for your efforts in digging are useless acronyms and hopeless youth coaches who need to get paid.

                            FC Portland, Eugene (MUSA), Westside Metros are indeed the clubs that produced 98% of 20+ MLS/Europe Professionals from 1990 to 2010. With WSM having the high profile MLS Draft pics and NCAA all-american types. Can't change that.

                            The quality of our current crop of local players needs to grow for sure, so we can get back to the 'golden ages' you mention. But creating more clubs with silly acronyms and soccer apps with user friendly Ipads tracking devices isn't helping this cause. Throw in isolated training methodology with private trainers and the kids have lost a feel for playing a simple 'game'. The 'game' has been lost on moves, IPads and videos of juggling the ball in isolation and posted on you tube.

                            Paying to play for a label is hardly a method to grow the game. Pocketbook perhaps.


                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            True, and that begs the question of why? Inadequate numbers of kids going into youth soccer? Inadequate coaching in the clubs? Inadequate local culture? Failure to identify and train potential prospects?
                            Are you saying that academy programs should be located only in places like SoCal, and if a kid wants to play for that, they should move there?You're confusing a couple things: The Timbers Academy program, which is designed to identify and groom talent for the first team or the transfer market, and the local DA programs, which are designed to provide a better soccer training experience for local youth, INCLUDING THOSE THAT WON'T EVER PLAY PRO. Most DA kids--indeed most TA kids--won't ever get a pro contract, after all. Are you suggesting we scrap the whole thing and return to the old system where someone (in many cases, the parents) buys a plane ticket and sends the Rubio Rubin's or Marco Farfan's or Theo McMillan's (since this is the 05 thread, and he's easily the best 05 in the area) of the world off to IMG to train, and the local clubs basically become, in the words of someone, "glorified rec"? Their goal, last I read, is one first-team prospect per year. Not there yet, obviously. But the soccer pipeline is more like a sluice pit--you gotta grind through a lot of mud and rock to find the gold. And club soccer still sends hundreds of boys to college. Most of them are D1 benchwarmers or D2/D3 players, not D1 starters (let alone elite collegians like Darlington Nagbe or Jordan Morris), but the golden age you dream of isn't as golden as you think. And most of those talented boys came from one particular club--are you suggesting that anything that gives Cony competition for talent should be closed down, so he can work his magic once again without having pissed-off mommies taking their snowflakes elsewhere? I didn't think so.
                            They do. Look at the U18 roster--it's posted on the USSDA website--and note how many of them are from Oregon and/or Southwest Washington, and how many are from Florida. The problem with this is--generally the guys they get from outside the Timbers' territory are either a) players from regions without a local academy of their own, or b) players cut from some other academy, looking for a second chance. Or, grow the local soccer market and culture, rather than pronouncing the state of Oregon hopeless and doomed to forever more be a rec-league state. But if the local West Hills pay-to-play clubs had their way, that's how it would remain. Now, there are many issues with how the Timbers are running their academy, and how the local DA clubs are coming on line. At this point, the 05 DA teams are mainly last year's OYSA Premier teams, with a patch on the shoulder. OTOH, the national DA program is starting to turn out some fine players. Too early for 2018, Pulisic excluded; but there are good reasons to be excited for the future of US soccer.
                            But ultimately--it will be the culture that's the deciding factor. If the US becomes a place where many kids choose soccer as their first sport, and dads and moms teach the game to their children at a young age, rather than learning the basics at 8 from a rec coach, the organization will matter far less.But bitching about the golden age gone by is ridiculous. There was no such thing.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              I've seen this happen at local clubs as well.

                              If you want to develop your elite players to the max--they need to be challenged. If your team has a few elite kids, and a bunch of lesser-skilled kids needed to complete an XI and fill out the bench but who are regarded as hopeless (and who are treated as such), that is a problem. Either: a) find the elite kids a new team--perhaps playing up, perhaps playing elsewhere; or b) make sure they are challenged on the team they are on, which means MAKING SURE THEY KNOW THEIR JOB IS NOT SAFE. Which means holding them to the same standards you hold the benchwarmers; if you give your substitute left back the hook because he misses a tackle and allows a goal, you should do the same thing to your annointed starter. And also which means trying to develop the bench players, rather than treating them like cones.

                              If a kid makes a team, he should be full member of that team. If the coach, in good conscience, cannot commit to doing that, the kid should be cut. If the coach can't cut the chaff without no longer having a full roster, see suggestions a and b above.
                              Fair and accurate points if what you suggested actually happened you would have 200 fewer club coaches and 25 less competitive clubs. That ain't happening in the club scene.

                              HS Soccer can survive with as it is with subs not playing at Varsity, clubs can't afford to operate this way, if they did, they would have performance standards. Pay to play provides income for these coaches. What would they do if the golden goose was choked.

                              Welcome to Oregon Soccer Economics 101.

                              Comment


                                Larry is a complete disaster as he can't pick talent out to safe his life. It's unfortunate, but the Timbers don't hire top tier coaching as they save their deep pockets for the top brass in the front office. Sorry but they don't care about the academy.
                                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                                Good assessment and having been around the program for a few years now I would also add:

                                #6 The coaching staff is not professional and generally don't care about most of the kids in the program. They are focused on those 4-5 players per age group which they've deemed as having the potential to make it. The rest of the players, they treat as merely training dummies and the players know it, feel it, and many end up leaving feeling defeated and angry. Several players I've talked to, some who are still there and a few who've quit, feel like no matter how hard they work or how well they play in training that they don't have a chance to break into that group of the "chosen few". Also, they talk about how negative the coaching is ... always tearing players down with no effort to build them up again.

                                I think it was a big miss hiring Larry to run the DA and they should seriously think about going a different direction before many more of the players walk away from the program.

                                Comment

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