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    U16B State Cup

    I wonder how this age group is going to work. This age group has 12 groups of 4 and one group of 3. Plus, your 8 teams that got a bye. So it looks like finishing 2nd in a group of 4 does not guarantee that the team will advance.

    #2
    Do the math. 2nd round 32 teams. 8 spots taken, leaving 24 spots. 12 groups. 12 × 2 = 24

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      #3
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      Do the math. 2nd round 32 teams. 8 spots taken, leaving 24 spots. 12 groups. 12 × 2 = 24
      Your a genius...what about the one group of 3?

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        #4
        Did you look at that group?

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          #5
          The only way I see this is the top team from each group advances plus the 8 that have a bye. Plus, 12 Wildcard based on points. It will be interesting.

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            #6
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Do the math. 2nd round 32 teams. 8 spots taken, leaving 24 spots. 12 groups. 12 × 2 = 24
            Might want to start with basic counting. There are 13 groups.

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              #7
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Might want to start with basic counting. There are 13 groups.
              Wow...yes I am aware of that. 12 of 4 and 1 of 3. Does that add up to 32? If you advance 2 from each group of 4 (24) plus your 8 that have a bye =32 so what happens with the one group of 3.

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                #8
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Wow...yes I am aware of that. 12 of 4 and 1 of 3. Does that add up to 32? If you advance 2 from each group of 4 (24) plus your 8 that have a bye =32 so what happens with the one group of 3.
                Did you look at that group?

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  Might want to start with basic counting. There are 13 groups.
                  Have to assume the 13 group winners plus the next best 11 wildcards with the 8 byes give you 32.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    Have to assume the 13 group winners plus the next best 11 wildcards with the 8 byes give you 32.
                    I can see it getting messy with the single group of 3 when they try to figure the wildcards. Those teams will have one less game to accumulate points. The 2nd place team in that group will probably have 3 points for one win and one loss. They will argue they shouldn't be punished for having one less game to get points towards being a wildcard, and the wildcards should be calculated on a points per game basis.

                    If they do it "points per game", it would almost be impossible for less than 2 teams to advance out of the 3 team group. Easy to get 1.5 points per game average which beats out the 1.333 points per game average for a team that's 1-1-1 in a 4 team bracket. So then it is very favorable to be in the 3 team bracket, because you get the benefit of easier to win outright, plus a good chance of making the wildcard.

                    If they do it straight up points, then the 2nd place team in that bracket will have almost no chance of advancing out of the 3 team group with only 3 points total, and they will whine that they didn't have another game, ignoring the fact that they only had to beat out 2 teams to advance.

                    No way to make that "fair". There will be at least one wildcard team that feels cheated no matter how they do it. FYSA really needed to publish how they will handle this eventuality upfront, but too late for that now. Maybe it's out there and I just didn't see it.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      I can see it getting messy with the single group of 3 when they try to figure the wildcards. Those teams will have one less game to accumulate points. The 2nd place team in that group will probably have 3 points for one win and one loss. They will argue they shouldn't be punished for having one less game to get points towards being a wildcard, and the wildcards should be calculated on a points per game basis.

                      If they do it "points per game", it would almost be impossible for less than 2 teams to advance out of the 3 team group. Easy to get 1.5 points per game average which beats out the 1.333 points per game average for a team that's 1-1-1 in a 4 team bracket. So then it is very favorable to be in the 3 team bracket, because you get the benefit of easier to win outright, plus a good chance of making the wildcard.

                      If they do it straight up points, then the 2nd place team in that bracket will have almost no chance of advancing out of the 3 team group with only 3 points total, and they will whine that they didn't have another game, ignoring the fact that they only had to beat out 2 teams to advance.

                      No way to make that "fair". There will be at least one wildcard team that feels cheated no matter how they do it. FYSA really needed to publish how they will handle this eventuality upfront, but too late for that now. Maybe it's out there and I just didn't see it.

                      Someone had the same exact issue in Presidents Cup and with groups being uneven. The group of three got shafted.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        Someone had the same exact issue in Presidents Cup and with groups being uneven. The group of three got shafted.
                        It's happened to a lot over the years. One time, one of our coaches asked for clarification and was told that it's easier to win a group of three. Can't argue with that.

                        Either way a team is going to feel "shafted" unless it's clarified upfront.

                        Here's how this decision tree will work....

                        1) FYSA will wait til results are in
                        2) If TBU ECNL team wins group, then the wildcards will be awarded total points
                        3) If TBU ECNL team finishes 2nd, then the wildcards will be awarded PPG.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          It's happened to a lot over the years. One time, one of our coaches asked for clarification and was told that it's easier to win a group of three. Can't argue with that.

                          Either way a team is going to feel "shafted" unless it's clarified upfront.

                          Here's how this decision tree will work....

                          1) FYSA will wait til results are in
                          2) If TBU ECNL team wins group, then the wildcards will be awarded total points
                          3) If TBU ECNL team finishes 2nd, then the wildcards will be awarded PPG.

                          You must be the one from the team that got shafted.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Why bother with seeds 9-20?

                            I understand the decision to go to only 8 seeds, but why make the draw completely random after that? There were 20 u16 teams with seeding points but FYSA chose not to recognize seeds 9-20 by placing them in separate groups. Instead with a random draw you get 4 groups with no seeded teams and 3 groups with 2 seeded teams. Group A has the 18 and 19 seeds. Group J has the 13 and 20 seeds. Group K has the 12 and 14. I recognize that you have to beat everyone to win state cup, but in most tournaments the games get progressively harder, not easier. It's as if they never ran a tournament before. My prediction is that next year there will be a lot fewer teams looking to play in their precious FSPL after what they did this year. I would expect most of the big clubs to place more teams in NPL or crappy local leagues that are awarded 6 seeding points.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              I understand the decision to go to only 8 seeds, but why make the draw completely random after that? There were 20 u16 teams with seeding points but FYSA chose not to recognize seeds 9-20 by placing them in separate groups. Instead with a random draw you get 4 groups with no seeded teams and 3 groups with 2 seeded teams. Group A has the 18 and 19 seeds. Group J has the 13 and 20 seeds. Group K has the 12 and 14. I recognize that you have to beat everyone to win state cup, but in most tournaments the games get progressively harder, not easier. It's as if they never ran a tournament before. My prediction is that next year there will be a lot fewer teams looking to play in their precious FSPL after what they did this year. I would expect most of the big clubs to place more teams in NPL or crappy local leagues that are awarded 6 seeding points.
                              Absolutely agree! Why? because they are morons. If you were seeded, you should not be in the same group with another team that's seeded. How do they not see that. Again, not surprise.

                              Comment

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