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How much training to be competitive?

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    #1

    How much training to be competitive?

    Question for the group: I coach a U12 team that only meets twice a week for one hour sessions. We're not really a REC team because my club has tryouts. We're a middle tier, between REC and Competitive level soccer for families that don't want to travel. I've been coaching for several years, I understand the game well, and I'm a good teacher. I believe I would do a decent job coaching a competitive team but have no interest in it yet.

    I plan to stay with this team for a while. At this point there isn't much difference in playing ability between my team and our competitive team. My question is this: If I stay with this team for a long time, is it possible to keep up with the progress of the competitive teams by meeting only 2 (or maybe 3) hours a week? I am using the same teaching methods and I'm pretty good at spotting weaknesses and fixing them.
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    #2
    Really?? One needs to consider if you were ever an athlete yourself, let alone a capable coach, if you need to ask this question. Think of your question this way, if you have two students of fairly equal ability but one puts twice as many hours into studying as the other, who do you think is going to get the better grades? You are putting a whole lot on the innate ability of your players so unless you are dealing with a group of misplaced equivalents of an Einstein (which has it's own set of issues) if you want to even just keep pace with your travel team at a minimum you need to match their work rate. Shocking that you would think otherwise and sure glad you aren't involved with any of my kids.
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      #3
      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
      Question for the group: I coach a U12 team that only meets twice a week for one hour sessions. We're not really a REC team because my club has tryouts. We're a middle tier, between REC and Competitive level soccer for families that don't want to travel. I've been coaching for several years, I understand the game well, and I'm a good teacher. I believe I would do a decent job coaching a competitive team but have no interest in it yet.

      I plan to stay with this team for a while. At this point there isn't much difference in playing ability between my team and our competitive team. My question is this: If I stay with this team for a long time, is it possible to keep up with the progress of the competitive teams by meeting only 2 (or maybe 3) hours a week? I am using the same teaching methods and I'm pretty good at spotting weaknesses and fixing them.
      3 to 4 hours a week and you'll be fine.
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        #4
        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
        3 to 4 hours a week and you'll be fine.
        Lol. Fine for what?? Anyone who starts out by asking what's the minimum amount of work his players can get by with should not be coaching youth sport.
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          #5
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          Question for the group: I coach a U12 team that only meets twice a week for one hour sessions. We're not really a REC team because my club has tryouts. We're a middle tier, between REC and Competitive level soccer for families that don't want to travel. I've been coaching for several years, I understand the game well, and I'm a good teacher. I believe I would do a decent job coaching a competitive team but have no interest in it yet.

          I plan to stay with this team for a while. At this point there isn't much difference in playing ability between my team and our competitive team. My question is this: If I stay with this team for a long time, is it possible to keep up with the progress of the competitive teams by meeting only 2 (or maybe 3) hours a week? I am using the same teaching methods and I'm pretty good at spotting weaknesses and fixing them.
          No. You won't keep up with the progress of the competitive team.

          1) you say there isn't much difference between the two teams. There is probably a big difference between the top of the competitive roster and the top of your roster, and a HUGE difference between the top of the other team and the bottom of your team.

          2) if they're better to begin with and working harder (and the kids are working on their own as well), the gap will continue to grow.

          3) you can't fix weaknesses in 2 hours a week. Not enough reps. The kids have to work on their own to fix first touch, passing accuracy, weak off-foot, etc.

          I do like your confidence, though. Thanks for coaching.
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            #6
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            No. You won't keep up with the progress of the competitive team.

            1) you say there isn't much difference between the two teams. There is probably a big difference between the top of the competitive roster and the top of your roster, and a HUGE difference between the top of the other team and the bottom of your team.

            2) if they're better to begin with and working harder (and the kids are working on their own as well), the gap will continue to grow.

            3) you can't fix weaknesses in 2 hours a week. Not enough reps. The kids have to work on their own to fix first touch, passing accuracy, weak off-foot, etc.

            I do like your confidence, though. Thanks for coaching.
            You all are assuming the more talented players are on the top team. The more talented players that tried out for it are on the top team. The talent that will not travel (either due to the cost in time or money) may stay on the less competitive team.
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              #7
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              No. You won't keep up with the progress of the competitive team.

              1) you say there isn't much difference between the two teams. There is probably a big difference between the top of the competitive roster and the top of your roster, and a HUGE difference between the top of the other team and the bottom of your team.

              2) if they're better to begin with and working harder (and the kids are working on their own as well), the gap will continue to grow.

              3) you can't fix weaknesses in 2 hours a week. Not enough reps. The kids have to work on their own to fix first touch, passing accuracy, weak off-foot, etc.

              I do like your confidence, though. Thanks for coaching.
              You mean, thanks for screwing up a bunch of kids don't you? This is why you have club, so you don't have to have your kid become some other parent's sociology experiment.
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                #8
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                Really?? One needs to consider if you were ever an athlete yourself, let alone a capable coach, if you need to ask this question. Think of your question this way, if you have two students of fairly equal ability but one puts twice as many hours into studying as the other, who do you think is going to get the better grades? You are putting a whole lot on the innate ability of your players so unless you are dealing with a group of misplaced equivalents of an Einstein (which has it's own set of issues) if you want to even just keep pace with your travel team at a minimum you need to match their work rate. Shocking that you would think otherwise and sure glad you aren't involved with any of my kids.
                The idea that more time equals better presumes training curriculum content that effectively develops players.

                I've seen plenty of U-little coaches who are deemed to be "dedicated" by loyal parents, tearing up the competition, and hit a massive wall on the big field and by high school these players lack the technical ability and understanding of the game to advance.

                Depending on the variables, give me a coach that before kids hit the big field care 80% about developing individual skill, 15% combination play and 5% whether they won or lost. They'll do a better job preparing competitive players than a coach who potentially spends twice as much time on the training ground in shooting lines or playing a scrimmage kicking the ball away.
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                  #9
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  You all are assuming the more talented players are on the top team. The more talented players that tried out for it are on the top team. The talent that will not travel (either due to the cost in time or money) may stay on the less competitive team.
                  Wondering how you define "talent" because I think most would factor commitment into the definition and you are clearly indicating that your group doesn't posses the same levels of it as the travel team. Sorry but there's more to being a good soccer player than just showing up for 2 1 hour practices a week. That might be good for a group of 6-7 year old but that not even close to the right amount of practice for a serious 12 year old soccer player.
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                    #10
                    2 90 minute practices per week, certainly before playing 11 v 11 is appropriate and sufficient. I suspect passionate players would want more, but would make less work, because they're going to have a desire to touch the ball on their own. That's the key. If a kid never watches the game or touches the ball on their own, because they don't like to, they're not going to be competitive later at some point. That's the silly part of some of these responses to 2 hours isn't nearly enough...this idea that if a parent doesn't drive and drop off the kid and this coach doesn't lay out the cones, development is doomed. Silly.
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                      #11
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Wondering how you define "talent" because I think most would factor commitment into the definition and you are clearly indicating that your group doesn't posses the same levels of it as the travel team. Sorry but there's more to being a good soccer player than just showing up for 2 1 hour practices a week. That might be good for a group of 6-7 year old but that not even close to the right amount of practice for a serious 12 year old soccer player.
                      Players ultimately have to develop themselves. 2 hours or 4 hours, - neither is enough without homework.
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                        #12
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        The idea that more time equals better presumes training curriculum content that effectively develops players.

                        I've seen plenty of U-little coaches who are deemed to be "dedicated" by loyal parents, tearing up the competition, and hit a massive wall on the big field and by high school these players lack the technical ability and understanding of the game to advance.

                        Depending on the variables, give me a coach that before kids hit the big field care 80% about developing individual skill, 15% combination play and 5% whether they won or lost. They'll do a better job preparing competitive players than a coach who potentially spends twice as much time on the training ground in shooting lines or playing a scrimmage kicking the ball away.
                        Still won't mean crap if they can't actually coach. The above post is an example of the sort of egotistical rec coach that you can run into in town programs. Apparently this guy can do it all in half the time that other coaches need because they are SOOOOO superior to other coaches and care SOOOOO much for their players that 2 hours of practice of week is all his players need to be on the track for the national team. Please. The end up buffaloing the rest in their town program in believing that they actually know something when the truth is they don't know anything and have never really developed any players. Guys like this are a mirage and the best advice is to steer clear.
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                          #13
                          The more competitive team is going to practice more than yours so I don't see how you can keep up with them by practicing 3 - 4 hours per week.

                          That being said, should keeping up with that team be your goal? It seems that, some if not most, of the parents/girls opted for a less competitive environment so maybe your goal should be that the girls continue to improve and have fun. And 3-4 hours per week would be plenty for that.
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                            #14
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Still won't mean crap if they can't actually coach. The above post is an example of the sort of egotistical rec coach that you can run into in town programs. Apparently this guy can do it all in half the time that other coaches need because they are SOOOOO superior to other coaches and care SOOOOO much for their players that 2 hours of practice of week is all his players need to be on the track for the national team. Please. The end up buffaloing the rest in their town program in believing that they actually know something when the truth is they don't know anything and have never really developed any players. Guys like this are a mirage and the best advice is to steer clear.
                            not just town programs, there's this type of coach in club too, don't fool yourself.
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                              #15
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              Question for the group: I coach a U12 team that only meets twice a week for one hour sessions. We're not really a REC team because my club has tryouts. We're a middle tier, between REC and Competitive level soccer for families that don't want to travel. I've been coaching for several years, I understand the game well, and I'm a good teacher. I believe I would do a decent job coaching a competitive team but have no interest in it yet.

                              I plan to stay with this team for a while. At this point there isn't much difference in playing ability between my team and our competitive team. My question is this: If I stay with this team for a long time, is it possible to keep up with the progress of the competitive teams by meeting only 2 (or maybe 3) hours a week? I am using the same teaching methods and I'm pretty good at spotting weaknesses and fixing them.
                              I'm confused, you indicated your team is in between Rec and Competitive soccer, so what is your definition of "competitive soccer?" Is that like a town travel team, because many towns have tryouts for that. So if you are in between Rec and Town Travel, I'm not familiar with that middle ground.

                              In terms of level of training and competitive play (games), MYSA is a good resource for no. of training events per week for how long and how many games per season. At U12, they recommend 2 90 minutes sessions and one competitive game per week. The thought process of not enough or too much is well documented. And as your team gets older, you'll need to adjust accordingly.

                              http://www.mayouthsoccer.org/coaches/session_plans/
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