Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Promotion/Relegation Works - C'Mon NEP

Collapse
X
  •  
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Promotion/Relegation Works - C'Mon NEP

    Quit the Old Boy Network crap and get the most skilled teams together in each division.

    Based on the "blowout" threads right now your protectionist ways aren't working.

    It's not about wins and losses. It's about development. No one wants to win or lose 17-0. That score is on you, not the coach. #FixTheMix

    #2
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Quit the Old Boy Network crap and get the most skilled teams together in each division.

    Based on the "blowout" threads right now your protectionist ways aren't working.

    It's not about wins and losses. It's about development. No one wants to win or lose 17-0. That score is on you, not the coach. #FixTheMix
    Get rid of this idiotic maple / NEP crap

    Make something of MA soccer while my kid is still in it!

    Comment


      #3
      Just a question...how would this work? i.e. if ABC Club Team has a bad year at U12, they are relegated down to a lower division. That affects the next year's team, that comes up from U11.

      That U12 team, who's U13 team dominated, now goes into U13 in the top flight, but is still out of their element.

      Or, does the relegation follow you as you move up in age groups? i.e. if you are relegated at U12, you remain relegated for U13?

      Comment


        #4
        If you don't know how promo relegation works why not go read a little about it instead of intentionally starting the flame war you know will erupt? Not everyone is stupid here.

        Comment


          #5
          OK, if that's directed at me (I asked the question), I'll say:

          1) Well, at least the reputation all of you posters have I can see is well-warranted
          2) I am fully aware of how promotion works with established age groups/leagues
          3) While everyone may not be stupid, the a-hole count is through the roof

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            Just a question...how would this work? i.e. if ABC Club Team has a bad year at U12, they are relegated down to a lower division. That affects the next year's team, that comes up from U11.

            That U12 team, who's U13 team dominated, now goes into U13 in the top flight, but is still out of their element.

            Or, does the relegation follow you as you move up in age groups? i.e. if you are relegated at U12, you remain relegated for U13?
            The latter. A U12 team that gets relegated or promoted at the end of their season switches divisions in the next season. The rising U12s are not affected.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              OK, if that's directed at me (I asked the question), I'll say:

              1) Well, at least the reputation all of you posters have I can see is well-warranted
              2) I am fully aware of how promotion works with established age groups/leagues
              3) While everyone may not be stupid, the a-hole count is through the roof
              You've just added yourself to the a-hole list. Nice job!

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                The latter. A U12 team that gets relegated or promoted at the end of their season switches divisions in the next season. The rising U12s are not affected.
                Thanks, and that makes the most logical sense. My initial reaction was "wait, then they will not be able to get the players needed to get back up to the top flight if they are relegated", but that's not unusual in a relegation/promotion league.

                Only sticking point I guess I could see would be when changing field sizes, i.e. sins of 7v7 cost you at 9v9, but may have to go with the "oh well" scenario...doubt it's rampant.

                I don't know enough about the various leagues in MA (short of NEP) so don't know how they fit together, and how accepting some would be if they were considered 'lower'.

                Consistent schedules, # of games, opponents would be required. Only way to compare apples to apples is if everyone plays each other (ideally, you'd do a home&home).

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  Thanks, and that makes the most logical sense. My initial reaction was "wait, then they will not be able to get the players needed to get back up to the top flight if they are relegated", but that's not unusual in a relegation/promotion league.

                  Only sticking point I guess I could see would be when changing field sizes, i.e. sins of 7v7 cost you at 9v9, but may have to go with the "oh well" scenario...doubt it's rampant.

                  I don't know enough about the various leagues in MA (short of NEP) so don't know how they fit together, and how accepting some would be if they were considered 'lower'.

                  Consistent schedules, # of games, opponents would be required. Only way to compare apples to apples is if everyone plays each other (ideally, you'd do a home&home).
                  Dare I say you're highlighting the one thing that can be reasonably argued that MAPLE does properly and NEP doesn't.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                    Dare I say you're highlighting the one thing that can be reasonably argued that MAPLE does properly and NEP doesn't.

                    The scheduling? I'm not familiar with MAPLE, for my edification, can you expand?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      The scheduling? I'm not familiar with MAPLE, for my edification, can you expand?
                      I was referring to the promotion and relegation in terms of age groups (8v8 as opposed to 11v11).

                      The placement is mostly a function of the clubs before 11v11; it's not perfect, because there will always be an element that isn't about development first, but a more formalized process at 11v11 works well. The point is that placement over time is based on accomplishment within the league's divisions (whatever anyone feels about the quality of the league is irrelevant).

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        I was referring to the promotion and relegation in terms of age groups (8v8 as opposed to 11v11).

                        The placement is mostly a function of the clubs before 11v11; it's not perfect, because there will always be an element that isn't about development first, but a more formalized process at 11v11 works well. The point is that placement over time is based on accomplishment within the league's divisions (whatever anyone feels about the quality of the league is irrelevant).
                        Ahh, got it. Thank you for clarifying.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                          I was referring to the promotion and relegation in terms of age groups (8v8 as opposed to 11v11).

                          The placement is mostly a function of the clubs before 11v11; it's not perfect, because there will always be an element that isn't about development first, but a more formalized process at 11v11 works well. The point is that placement over time is based on accomplishment within the league's divisions (whatever anyone feels about the quality of the league is irrelevant).
                          You are right about relegation/promotion NOT working pre-11v11, and the reason is u-liitle coaches who force feed the u12 and below ages with their tactical, win-first egotistical schemes. One simple example: if you teach an attacking player to release the ball upon first pressure, and you play against a team with kids who haven't learned to defend off the ball, you are going to score a ton of goals and win at u12 and below. The price you pay is that attacker doesn't learn to beat anybody off the dribble, and almost all your games will be blowouts. It would be better NOT to have these kids play "counting" games, and it would definitely be better not to have 11 year olds in a "relegation battle" that really only matters to the financial needs of the club and the egos of the puppet-master coaches.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            You are right about relegation/promotion NOT working pre-11v11, and the reason is u-liitle coaches who force feed the u12 and below ages with their tactical, win-first egotistical schemes. One simple example: if you teach an attacking player to release the ball upon first pressure, and you play against a team with kids who haven't learned to defend off the ball, you are going to score a ton of goals and win at u12 and below. The price you pay is that attacker doesn't learn to beat anybody off the dribble, and almost all your games will be blowouts. It would be better NOT to have these kids play "counting" games, and it would definitely be better not to have 11 year olds in a "relegation battle" that really only matters to the financial needs of the club and the egos of the puppet-master coaches.
                            The kids don't need to know about relegation. All they need to know is that their mom or dad drives them to a soccer field somewhere to play against like competition.

                            Only the parents and the coaches care about divisions. That needs to change.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              The scheduling? I'm not familiar with MAPLE, for my edification, can you expand?
                              I'll try a brief history, and encourage others to improve my description
                              Once upon a time, MAss Premier LEague Soccer was the only club soccer league.
                              MAPLE had and still has a Promotion/Relegation model similar to EPL.
                              http://www.maplesoccer.com/maple-tou...s-spring-2015/

                              Maple allows any club affiliated with Mass Youth Soccer to compete. This results in a few neighborhood clubs competing with just a few Gender/Age Group Teams.
                              Although not common, it was not unheard of for a small club to have a good crop and embarrass a big club in any given year.

                              NEP was formed around 2008ish(??) differentiating itself on proper player development compared to MAPLE. It promoted age-appropriate sides (8v8 longer), Good Housekeeping seals consisting only of clubs providing a full range of teams across genders and age groups, and NO relegation, allowing coaches to prioritize player development over winning.

                              Most everyone recognizes NEP as the Mega clubs version of a walled garden. Within NEP we can proclaim superiority over small clubs - without every having to actually beat them - and justify higher costs for all parents.

                              So the question for this thread: Now that NEP is firmly in place is it time to bring relegation back for the higher age-groups?

                              Comment

                              Previously entered content was automatically saved. Restore or Discard.
                              Auto-Saved
                              x
                              Insert: Thumbnail Small Medium Large Fullsize Remove  
                              x
                              Working...
                              X