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    Tournaments, too many?

    Another weekend, another tournament with our club. I started to wonder is this normal? Is this a need to promote a club? Is this helpful to my son? (never mind my wallet) I researched and found this article:

    http://www.nyswysa.org/coaches/stop-the-tournaments-by-jay-martin-ph-d/

    So according to this article too many tournaments negatively affects a kids development and focus should be on training. Wondering how other parents feel. It seems our country is tournament heavy and it doesn't even help our kid.

    #2
    Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
    Another weekend, another tournament with our club. I started to wonder is this normal? Is this a need to promote a club? Is this helpful to my son? (never mind my wallet) I researched and found this article:

    http://www.nyswysa.org/coaches/stop-the-tournaments-by-jay-martin-ph-d/

    So according to this article too many tournaments negatively affects a kids development and focus should be on training. Wondering how other parents feel. It seems our country is tournament heavy and it doesn't even help our kid.
    Then don’t go back or don’t join the team in the first place. Problem solved for you and your kid. No one has a gun to your head.

    Comment


      #3
      So we can't talk about the need to play in so many tournaments in the US? Clearly it must be to promote clubs. Can't even read the article? I think it is an interesting conversation to have with parents. Instead of suggesting leaving a club, how about a bit of awareness that might be an issue so that kids are getting proper training here in the US and parents aren't wasting money on traveling and promoting a club. I don't think parents need to leave clubs, but I think parents should question the clubs need for playing in so many tournaments after reading this article.

      Comment


        #4
        I think SOME tournaments are fine, say 3-4 a year if they're spaced out. Back-to-back tournament weekends are probably counterproductive, but from what I've seen, these events are good for camaraderie. A tournament is generally the only opportunity the kids will have to spend non-practice/game time just hanging out getting to know each other socially. No, you're not going to improve technically, but there's something to be said for building chemistry.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
          So we can't talk about the need to play in so many tournaments in the US? Clearly it must be to promote clubs. Can't even read the article? I think it is an interesting conversation to have with parents. Instead of suggesting leaving a club, how about a bit of awareness that might be an issue so that kids are getting proper training here in the US and parents aren't wasting money on traveling and promoting a club. I don't think parents need to leave clubs, but I think parents should question the clubs need for playing in so many tournaments after reading this article.
          You can discuss it all you want. I personally enjoy local tournaments and the occasional showcase out of state. What I don’t like as a team manager is listening to whining parents bitch to me whenever they can that “doing these tournaments is stupid.” My response is always the same. Not changing, and you accepted the roster spot knowing the tournament schedule, so either shut up or negotiate a deal with the coach not to attend, or don’t accept the roster spot. Not everyone else thinks the same as you.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
            You can discuss it all you want. I personally enjoy local tournaments and the occasional showcase out of state. What I don’t like as a team manager is listening to whining parents bitch to me whenever they can that “doing these tournaments is stupid.” My response is always the same. Not changing, and you accepted the roster spot knowing the tournament schedule, so either shut up or negotiate a deal with the coach not to attend, or don’t accept the roster spot. Not everyone else thinks the same as you.
            Ok well then I see it's really all about the kids isn't it? Not about an irritated "team manager." Not about the coach or the club. It's totally about the kids...Parents can't question without being referred to as whining or bitching? ok. Clubs can't exist, coaches don't have jobs without the parents opening their wallets, so um, maybe it's ok that they question things.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
              Ok well then I see it's really all about the kids isn't it? Not about an irritated "team manager." Not about the coach or the club. It's totally about the kids...Parents can't question without being referred to as whining or bitching? ok. Clubs can't exist, coaches don't have jobs without the parents opening their wallets, so um, maybe it's ok that they question things.
              If you can find a team of players where the majority of paying parents agree with you, then you might be able to convince the coach that tournaments are not needed or desired. If it’s a big club where tournaments are required, it probably won’t make a difference. But here’s the point... most coaches, players and parents LIKE the tournaments, so if you are the lone voice constantly bitching and whining, then you annoying and no one will want to stand near you on the sidelines. Nothing more annoying than a person who complains about things, but does nothing about it. And complaining on TS doesn’t count as doing anything about it either.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                If you can find a team of players where the majority of paying parents agree with you, then you might be able to convince the coach that tournaments are not needed or desired. If it’s a big club where tournaments are required, it probably won’t make a difference. But here’s the point... most coaches, players and parents LIKE the tournaments, so if you are the lone voice constantly bitching and whining, then you annoying and no one will want to stand near you on the sidelines. Nothing more annoying than a person who complains about things, but does nothing about it. And complaining on TS doesn’t count as doing anything about it either.
                Oh yes thank you for the solid advice and for making your point. It would be scary to be standing on the sidelines alone. I better behave and not question things as I might become unpopular. Seriously? That's madness. You cannot speak for most parents especially you, how could a parent be honest about how they feel when "team managers" like you quickly tell them to shut-up. Asking for parents opinions is also not considered complaining, it is questioning the reasoning. There is a bully mentality that is coming from the poster above. Trying to shut-up parents for questioning how things are done. Referring to them as being a complainer, loner, bitching...that is very wrong. It is important to stand up to people like this "team manager." They do not get to speak for the parents and coaches to serve their own interests to put little Johnny in a medal. The parents do not always speak up, at least not to the coaches or team manager because of this very attitude. Do not think for one second that a comment of "no one will want to stand near you on the sidelines" flys. This is not high school. We are parents.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                  Oh yes thank you for the solid advice and for making your point. It would be scary to be standing on the sidelines alone. I better behave and not question things as I might become unpopular. Seriously? That's madness. You cannot speak for most parents especially you, how could a parent be honest about how they feel when "team managers" like you quickly tell them to shut-up. Asking for parents opinions is also not considered complaining, it is questioning the reasoning. There is a bully mentality that is coming from the poster above. Trying to shut-up parents for questioning how things are done. Referring to them as being a complainer, loner, bitching...that is very wrong. It is important to stand up to people like this "team manager." They do not get to speak for the parents and coaches to serve their own interests to put little Johnny in a medal. The parents do not always speak up, at least not to the coaches or team manager because of this very attitude. Do not think for one second that a comment of "no one will want to stand near you on the sidelines" flys. This is not high school. We are parents.
                  Sigh...

                  Once again, you know what the club soccer scene is when you CHOOSE to join it. If you want something that fundamental to change, you will have to do a lot more than just talk about it. That’s the point. Go join the board of a big club, start your own club, get involved on a higher level. But being just being parent who agrees to the rules current rules in place, while complaining about the rules is what is annoying. You have an opinion and a passion about something that is great. Go do something to change it. But my guess is you’ll just continue to complain to whoever will listen.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    From the article:
                    A tournament now and then is fine. It can be fun for the club, the players and the parents. Maybe they can travel to some cities that are fun. A tournament can bring a team "together" and build some morale. But too many tournaments will prevent the natural progression of learning that will take place in well-organized and thoughtful training sessions. Training sessions that use the last game as a learning situation to build on and training sessions that prepare the team for the next opponent. The old coaching expression that "the game is the best teacher" is not true. Games used as a laboratory and supplemented by systematic and progressive training sessions are the best teacher.

                    It's something for US clubs to start considering.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                      Sigh...

                      Once again, you know what the club soccer scene is when you CHOOSE to join it. If you want something that fundamental to change, you will have to do a lot more than just talk about it. That’s the point. Go join the board of a big club, start your own club, get involved on a higher level. But being just being parent who agrees to the rules current rules in place, while complaining about the rules is what is annoying. You have an opinion and a passion about something that is great. Go do something to change it. But my guess is you’ll just continue to complain to whoever will listen.
                      $$$$$ Club soccer in the US has not been created to make US soccer better. It has been created as a money maker and will continually be a money maker in the US.
                      Tournaments are great but not a necessity, especially too many tournaments.
                      You need a great coach who can teach. It doesn't matter what color you are wearing it depends on your coach. Is he trying to improve all aspects of your game? If not, move on. He/she is getting paid for that. (Along with the fancy warmups, uniform, and bag)
                      In other countries, where the players are much better than what we have, it's not about the tournaments or anything else. It's about development!!!!
                      I'm sure they get paid but not as much bull**** or watered down talent all to acquire $$$$. Too late here. Everyone is in the game now. Keep opening your wallets for the "Scholarship dream". That isn't going to happen for the majority.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                        $$$$$ Club soccer in the US has not been created to make US soccer better. It has been created as a money maker and will continually be a money maker in the US.
                        Tournaments are great but not a necessity, especially too many tournaments.
                        You need a great coach who can teach. It doesn't matter what color you are wearing it depends on your coach. Is he trying to improve all aspects of your game? If not, move on. He/she is getting paid for that. (Along with the fancy warmups, uniform, and bag)
                        In other countries, where the players are much better than what we have, it's not about the tournaments or anything else. It's about development!!!!
                        I'm sure they get paid but not as much bull**** or watered down talent all to acquire $$$$. Too late here. Everyone is in the game now. Keep opening your wallets for the "Scholarship dream". That isn't going to happen for the majority.
                        OK with tournaments, not OK with multiple 11v11 full games twice a day on back to back days. Why children do four games in two days compared to adults/professionals doing 1 game every three days max?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Always 1

                          Every sideline has that parent that everyone else who knows tries to avoid sitting near. Usually the parent who should just shut up and fly under the radar because their kid should be down a division. Always fun to watch when the new parent sits down next to them and they start right in on them. Everyone else sitting there thankful that they got a pass from the nightmare

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                            Every sideline has that parent that everyone else who knows tries to avoid sitting near. Usually the parent who should just shut up and fly under the radar because their kid should be down a division. Always fun to watch when the new parent sits down next to them and they start right in on them. Everyone else sitting there thankful that they got a pass from the nightmare
                            What does playing level and player selection have to do with the discussion on tournaments? Guess what: tournaments are a huge money maker for clubs. Local clubs have "gentlemen's agreements" to put teams in each other's tournaments and not to have tournaments on the same weekend. Ever notice that each club has a tournament and it generally doesn't interefere with another club's tournaments? That isn't by accident. It was done on purpose by the heads of clubs.

                            Bottom line, tournaments suck. I also agree playing 4-5 games over the course of 2 days is stupid and does nothing to physically develop players, but can do much to injure them. Playing tournaments like that breeds large rosters, same as the unlimited substitutions in college soccer. Again, a money maker for clubs.

                            Last, the college "showcase". Lets travel across the country to be seen by college coaches that are likely within an hour or two of our home and pay thousands for the privilege of these country-club leagues because it makes recruiting easier, one-stop-shop, for the college coaches. Again, families pay so others benefit. So, yeah, tournaments suck. The current system sucks. It is just one reason why the USMNT will NEVER compete for a world cup. As to the women's side, well, take a look at the rosters of the decent D1 programs and they are now 1/4 Internationals. Other countries are starting to invest in their women's programs and it is certainly beginning to create strain at the college level which currently serves as a "Finishing school" before the pros.

                            So, yeah, less tournaments... too bad there are too many stupid parents who refuse to say no. Here's a life lesson for you: if you're sitting at the card table and you can't figure out who the mark is, the mark is you. I'll let the rest of you figure out what I mean by that.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Unregistered View Post
                              What does playing level and player selection have to do with the discussion on tournaments? Guess what: tournaments are a huge money maker for clubs. Local clubs have "gentlemen's agreements" to put teams in each other's tournaments and not to have tournaments on the same weekend. Ever notice that each club has a tournament and it generally doesn't interefere with another club's tournaments? That isn't by accident. It was done on purpose by the heads of clubs.

                              Bottom line, tournaments suck. I also agree playing 4-5 games over the course of 2 days is stupid and does nothing to physically develop players, but can do much to injure them. Playing tournaments like that breeds large rosters, same as the unlimited substitutions in college soccer. Again, a money maker for clubs.

                              Last, the college "showcase". Lets travel across the country to be seen by college coaches that are likely within an hour or two of our home and pay thousands for the privilege of these country-club leagues because it makes recruiting easier, one-stop-shop, for the college coaches. Again, families pay so others benefit. So, yeah, tournaments suck. The current system sucks. It is just one reason why the USMNT will NEVER compete for a world cup. As to the women's side, well, take a look at the rosters of the decent D1 programs and they are now 1/4 Internationals. Other countries are starting to invest in their women's programs and it is certainly beginning to create strain at the college level which currently serves as a "Finishing school" before the pros.

                              So, yeah, less tournaments... too bad there are too many stupid parents who refuse to say no. Here's a life lesson for you: if you're sitting at the card table and you can't figure out who the mark is, the mark is you. I'll let the rest of you figure out what I mean by that.
                              So I assume then you don’t let your kids attend the tournaments and showcases you are so opposed to?

                              I also assume you are actively seeking change of the club system outside of this message board???

                              If I am wrong in my assumptions, the other poster is right. You are just complainer full of hot air.

                              Comment

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