Needham Girls HS Hazing

[Unregistered]

I'll admit, when I first read what occurred - underclassmen pulled around a field with dog leashes and then hit in the face with pies - I chuckled. From my perspective (45 years old now), that's tame compared to what I experienced.

It's a different world now, however, and I think the school acted appropriately. While this particular incident might have been relatively harmless (perhaps a little humiliating), no school can afford to be selective when it comes to responding to hazing incidents. Kids can and are seriously injured during hazing, kids can and do die during hazing. Zero tolerance is really the only appropriate policy. It's that simple.

[Unregistered]

Wasn't it only a couple of years ago there were some news reports about a college womens' soccer hazing incident involving leashes? My daughter was horrified then, and she's horrified now. I can't believe some parents think this is funny and are ridiculing the honest reaction that this incident really bothers some girls. Some people have thicker skin than others. Yours may expect this kind of behavior from people, that's a shame. If my daughter gets upset at the thought of being blindfolded, paraded around on a leash, and smashed in the face with a pie by people she considered her friends and teammates, or by the thought that her teammates would do this to one another and think it was funny, well, that's my kid, and that's a lot of kids. I am not worried that she will fail in college because it is disturbing to her. She has feelings and cares about others and is kind, what a bad parent I guess I am.

[HS Harry]

I know of no MIAA Rule regarding Hazing. The State Statute does appear on their web-site, but if you review the Blue Book you will see no rules regarding the MIAA's involvement with Hazing incidents. It is a matter left to the local schools (and the DA) for enforcement. Secondly, the MIAA has little to no involvemet with confernece championships beyond their connection with tournament eligibility. So it is pretty unlikely that they would (or could) sanction a team by removing a BSL co-championship. Finally, I've actually seen the Judge's decision and it does not indicate that the parent's claims were frivilous. IMHO, they were misguided and in the end counter-productive, but the legal claim that the due process protections that were afforded to the students via the Student Handbook had been violated had some merit. Just not enough to deserve over-turning the Principal's suspensions.

[Unregistered]

News reports say this "fun" was something that happens every year. (To which a Needham parent said, "just because it's done every year doesn't make it right" - thank you for some common sense). But anyway, if is a yearly occurrence, why wasn't this addressed previously? Why were the captains who had to sign the MIAA no-hazing pledge, and the coach is made well-aware, not the ones to step up and say now is the time to put a stop to this "tradition?"

There are a lot of traditions that need to be eliminated. It's a new era. Do you know how many kids have died from hazing and traditions?

[Unregistered]

I know of no MIAA Rule regarding Hazing. The State Statute does appear on their web-site, but if you review the Blue Book you will see no rules regarding the MIAA's involvement with Hazing incidents. It is a matter left to the local schools (and the DA) for enforcement. Secondly, the MIAA has little to no involvemet with confernece championships beyond their connection with tournament eligibility. So it is pretty unlikely that they would (or could) sanction a team by removing a BSL co-championship. Finally, I've actually seen the Judge's decision and it does not indicate that the parent's claims were frivilous. IMHO, they were misguided and in the end counter-productive, but the legal claim that the due process protections that were afforded to the students via the Student Handbook had been violated had some merit. Just not enough to deserve over-turning the Principal's suspensions.

Interesting.

[Unregistered]

I know of no MIAA Rule regarding Hazing. The State Statute does appear on their web-site, but if you review the Blue Book you will see no rules regarding the MIAA's involvement with Hazing incidents. It is a matter left to the local schools (and the DA) for enforcement. Secondly, the MIAA has little to no involvemet with confernece championships beyond their connection with tournament eligibility. So it is pretty unlikely that they would (or could) sanction a team by removing a BSL co-championship. Finally, I've actually seen the Judge's decision and it does not indicate that the parent's claims were frivilous. IMHO, they were misguided and in the end counter-productive, but the legal claim that the due process protections that were afforded to the students via the Student Handbook had been violated had some merit. Just not enough to deserve over-turning the Principal's suspensions.

HSH, if you were the AD at a school where this incident happened, what action would you have taken?

[Unregistered]

I'm with the thin-skinned among us. I was hazed as part of a "fun" sorority prank years and years ago and it was absolutely the most humiliating experience. (And yes, I did have bad dreams for awhile afterwards)! It certainly did not make me feel like part of the team, I'll tell you that. There is an element of meanness, power, and control over younger friends/teammates when this kind of thing occurs. there is a reason there are anti-hazing rules all over the place now.

[Unregistered]

Finally, I've actually seen the Judge's decision and it does not indicate that the parent's claims were frivilous. IMHO, they were misguided and in the end counter-productive, but the legal claim that the due process protections that were afforded to the students via the Student Handbook had been violated had some merit. Just not enough to deserve over-turning the Principal's suspensions.

I'd agree with this. The school's policy was poorly drafted the offenders to argue through counsel that they were not afforded due process. It needs to be rewritten to emphasize a zero-tolerance approach.

- Odie

[Unregistered]

I'm with the thin-skinned among us. I was hazed as part of a "fun" sorority prank years and years ago and it was absolutely the most humiliating experience. (And yes, I did have bad dreams for awhile afterwards)! It certainly did not make me feel like part of the team, I'll tell you that. There is an element of meanness, power, and control over younger friends/teammates when this kind of thing occurs. there is a reason there are anti-hazing rules all over the place now.

Absolutely, though I'm not sure this particular incident rises to that level. That said, zero-tolerance is the only appropriate approach. One only needs to google hazing and death to understand why. No school can afford to selectively discipline hazing incidents.

- Odie

[Unregistered]

I'm with the thin-skinned among us. I was hazed as part of a "fun" sorority prank years and years ago and it was absolutely the most humiliating experience. (And yes, I did have bad dreams for awhile afterwards)! It certainly did not make me feel like part of the team, I'll tell you that. There is an element of meanness, power, and control over younger friends/teammates when this kind of thing occurs. there is a reason there are anti-hazing rules all over the place now.

Did you not know this was going to happen to you when you applied to the sorority? If you did know prior you have nothing to complain about, you asked for it and were willing to put up with it to be part of the group. You made a conscious decision, something which these kids I would guess did not. Even if they did know, they are what 14 or 15 years old as opposed to 18-19 when at college?

[HS Harry]

HSH, if you were the AD at a school where this incident happened, what action would you have taken?

Report it immediately to the Principal. That is how this works. Hazing is not to be treated as an "athletic issue" it is possibly a crime and almost every set of school policies I have ever seen places the investigative and disciplinary authority with the HS Principal. From what I have read (and seen) the Principal has done a good job with this. He acted swiftly and decisively. He may not have followed the requirements of the handbook perfectly (and that is why the judge found some merit to the claim that the students should not have been suspended prior to an investigation and intial hearing/ meeting, but basically he has done right in a tough situation. If the students did not violate the statute (and face criminal prosecution) I think that they all should forfeit any additional captains positions and be required, face a 2 week (4 contest from this and any winter sport) suspension. Coach should be fired.

[Unregistered]

There are a lot of traditions that need to be eliminated. It's a new era. Do you know how many kids have died from hazing and traditions?

All I hear is "it's a new era or in this day and age or in this environment" when will the ground swell for living the way we did 30 years ago take hold. I understand technology advances but I'm sorry when I grew up in the 60's-80's it was a better world why can't the focus of people say let's make this a better place. In this incident couldn't this have been handled by a phone call to the coach and then an apology and then if there was no apology, take the next step and call the principal. Keep it in house so kids on both sides don't get hurt. Kinda like the 60's-80's.

[Unregistered]

All I hear is "it's a new era or in this day and age or in this environment" when will the ground swell for living the way we did 30 years ago take hold. I understand technology advances but I'm sorry when I grew up in the 60's-80's it was a better world why can't the focus of people say let's make this a better place. In this incident couldn't this have been handled by a phone call to the coach and then an apology and then if there was no apology, take the next step and call the principal. Keep it in house so kids on both sides don't get hurt. Kinda like the 60's-80's.

Under Mass law and perhaps school policy, isn't the coach obligated to report these incidents to the principal?

[Unregistered]

Report it immediately to the Principal. That is how this works. Hazing is not to be treated as an "athletic issue" it is possibly a crime and almost every set of school policies I have ever seen places the investigative and disciplinary authority with the HS Principal. From what I have read (and seen) the Principal has done a good job with this. He acted swiftly and decisively. He may not have followed the requirements of the handbook perfectly (and that is why the judge found some merit to the claim that the students should not have been suspended prior to an investigation and intial hearing/ meeting, but basically he has done right in a tough situation. If the students did not violate the statute (and face criminal prosecution) I think that they all should forfeit any additional captains positions and be required, face a 2 week (4 contest from this and any winter sport) suspension. Coach should be fired.

Thanks. Thoughtful response as usual.

[Unregistered]

All I hear is "it's a new era or in this day and age or in this environment" when will the ground swell for living the way we did 30 years ago take hold. I understand technology advances but I'm sorry when I grew up in the 60's-80's it was a better world why can't the focus of people say let's make this a better place. In this incident couldn't this have been handled by a phone call to the coach and then an apology and then if there was no apology, take the next step and call the principal. Keep it in house so kids on both sides don't get hurt. Kinda like the 60's-80's.

Kind of like pulling over the drunk drivers and giving them a ride home instead of arresting them? I'm all set with that, thanks!